Episode 11: Talking Money and Motherhood with Financial Therapist Khara Croswaite Brindle
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What does embracing pleasure look like as a woman whether your a woman without kids, a mom, a woman in menopause, a grandmother, etc? In this conversation with Dr. Rosalyn Dischiavo, founder of the Institute for Sexuality Education and Enlightenment and author of The Deep Yes: The Lost Art of True Receiving, she shares her personal and professional journey into sex education and therapy, exploring the profound intersections of sexual health, mental well-being, and personal identity. She dives into her story of overcoming infertility, pursuing a doctoral degree, and the importance of integrating pleasure and desire into our holistic health practices.
We discuss:
The cultural stigmas surrounding sexuality and how they disconnect us from our bodies.
Why sexual health is essential to mental, emotional, and physical well-being.
The often-overlooked connection between receiving and pleasure and how embracing both can lead to healing and growth.
The creation of the Institute for Sexuality Education and Enlightenment and its mission to bridge the gap between scientific knowledge and personal empowerment.
Rosalyn’s book The Deep Yes: The Lost Art of True Receiving and the powerful practices it offers for embracing pleasure, nature, and rest without guilt.
Rosalyn reflects on how societal messages, like the Madonna-whore complex and hustle culture, inhibit our ability to truly experience life’s joys like enjoying a sunset or embracing intimacy. She wants us to rethink our relationship with pleasure and provides actionable insights for cultivating deeper connections with themselves and our partners.
This is a conversation that goes beyond sex. It’s about reclaiming wholeness, honoring our bodies, and redefining how we show up in the world.
Links and Resources:
Learn more about Rosalyn Devo and her work at the Institute for Sexuality Education and Enlightenment.
Check out Rosalyn's book, The Deep Yes: The Lost Art of True Receiving, available on Amazon.
Follow us on Instagram @RedefiningUsPodcast for more empowering conversations.
Connect with Dr. Roz:
http://instituteforsexuality.com
IG: @HolisticSexEd https://www.instagram.com/holisticsexed/
FB: https://www.facebook.com/InstituteforSEE
Book: https://www.amazon.com/Deep-Yes-Lost-True-Receiving-ebook/dp/B01COCGE74/ref=monarch_sidesheet_image
Subscribe & Review:
If this episode resonated with you, we’d love it if you could leave a review and share it with others! Your support helps us grow and reach more listeners.
Links & Resources
Please leave us a review or rating! These help get the show out to more women like you wanting to have these conversations.
Would you like to chat more about this episode's topic? I would love to continue our conversation over on Instagram! @wellmindedcounseling
I wrote a book! Becoming Mommy: Aligning with yourself and finding your voice during pregnancy and motherhood, available at all major retailers . View on Amazon
Where to find more from Redefining Us:
Website: wellmindedcounseling.com/redefining-us-pod
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Don't get caught up in what things cost right in this moment as you're listening to this podcast. Check the numbers when you're ready as part of your planning process of like, hey, I have nine, almost 10 months potentially, hopefully. The plan isn't saying do I need to change what the budget looks like if I have a budget or in our case, a conscious spending plan of what do diapers cost? How many of them am I going to need? I remember trying to figure out how many I had to carry in the diaper bag if I was gone all day with my baby. What's the math? I don't know. Do I need seven? Do I need 10? How much is this kid going to let go of all the things? And so... I think for a lot of people, they get stuck in, here's what my budget or my grocery bill was before kids. But now we need to reevaluate what it is now. So that's a tidbit for the listeners. Don't go off old numbers. Re-evaluate at the three-month mark. Your baby is now three months old. What are the costs coming in? Is it diapers? Is it formula? Is it other stuff? Don't work with old numbers because you're setting yourself up to fail. And then now we have shape of like, oh, I can't even keep to my budget. It's not real estate for a family of three, four, five, whatever that may be.
Speaker 04
01:00
This is Redefining Us, and I'm your host, Stephanie Contrera, licensed professional counselor. And I'm so glad that you joined us today so we can dive into what it means to be a woman in today's society, figuring out how we balance everything, how we grow, how we be more authentically us and figuring out who we are through the transitions of life, whether that be motherhood, success, relationships, and all things that have happened in women's lives, because it's definitely not a linear journey. And I think by talking about it and normalizing it and validating, we can all rise together and be the women that we were meant to be. So keep tuning in. and I am so excited about joining the conversation and being in your ears each week. Let's get into it. Welcome back to Redefining Us. This is Stephanie Contrahera, licensed professional counselor, and today I have with me Kara Crosswhite-Brindle, who's also a licensed therapist, entrepreneur, and a financial therapist. Welcome. Thank you. Excited to talk about all things money. Woo! Woo! Yeah, that's a topic that I think a lot of people maybe want to talk about, but don't actually talk about. It's kind of going back to also the theme of this podcast, too, is talking about taboo things like sex, postpartum, pregnancy, all the intricacies of things that people are like, let's maybe minimize the impact that this has on our lives, which money has a huge impact on everyone's lives, even if they don't say it does. That's right. Mm hmm.
Speaker 00
02:39
Yep, we can definitely affirm that throughout this episode.
Speaker 04
02:42
Yes. Yeah, so I want to really talk about your journey of why this is important to you to start off. So yeah, let's just start there. Why becoming a financial therapist? Why was that part of your journey? Why did you feel inspired to go down this route?
Speaker 00
02:60
Yeah, so in the pandemic, I was bringing it up for the second time professionally in my career. So I saw the same warning signs, knew what they were this time around. My first burnout journey, it took me about two years to recognize I was in it and about a year to recover. So I was like, let's not do that again. So in the pandemic, it was actually like end of 2020, early 2021, where I really felt the symptoms. Like we all white knuckled it through 2020. Like everyone's in the same rocky ocean kind of analogy there. And in 2021, I was working on a project as an entrepreneur. I'm always building something. And I interviewed a financial therapist. I'd never heard of one before. I found one here in Colorado. I interviewed her. After 20 minutes of interviewing this woman, The next day, I pitched that I wanted to be a contractor under her to learn the craft. So I had this light bulb moment of this is the intersection of the work I do with therapists and helping them build their businesses. So I worked under her, mentored under her for about six months, pursued certification. And here we are, several years later, doing all sorts of things with financial therapy. And I love it.
Speaker 04
03:58
Yeah. Yeah. You even have a book coming out soon, specifically around money and Enneagrams, right?
Speaker 00
04:04
Totally do. Yes. So nerdy not about Enneagram right
Speaker 04
04:09
now. Can't help myself. That's fair. I feel like I also, I'd really identify with the Enneagram more so than any other type or style of personality things out there. So I hope that it's a really good book for everyone to pick up on, especially if you have money issues or, again, identifies strongly with your Enneagram type.
Speaker 00
04:29
Yeah, thank you. I'm excited to tell people more about it when it launches.
Speaker 04
04:32
Yeah. So we're also here to talk about how money impacts parenthood and how you make decisions differently when you now have a child to, you know, think about when it comes to where your dollars go.
Speaker 00
04:47
Yes. Yeah. So first thought I had when you were like, let's talk about this was my own personal journey, which hopefully my spouse, if he listens to this podcast later, won't be like, ah, you aired all our dirty laundry. But when we decided we wanted to have children, we started that decision process in 2020. A lot of, I think, millennial parents did because they're like, huh, life is changing. Priorities are shifting. Well, I went back into workaholism. So I was like, I work from home all day, every day. So my schedule didn't have the parameters that it does now. And something clicked where I was like, I'm not getting any younger. I'm considered an elder millennial. It's a thing. And at that point, I started doing some research. And it said that to have a child, you have to have at least $12,000 saved to have one. Just to birth a baby, that's assuming you have health insurance. That's assuming you have good health insurance. But you need $12,000 just for the maintenance of the aftercare, last-minute co-pays, things like that. And I was like, huh. And at the time, as your face just showed, I was like, that feels like a lot of money. And then in contrast, you think about raising a child from zero to 18, and they say that's now $250,000 to raise them. True. including extracurriculars, like things they want to do after school, sports, creativity, that kind of thing. And for a lot of people, I think this prevents them from becoming parents. Like I heard from my spouse, can we financially afford a kid? That was his worry. And we think about having a second child. This came up again. I don't think we can afford a second kid was his narrative. We ended up not deciding to have a second kid for other reasons, but that was really a sticking point for him. So anyone who's listening to this right now who's feeling validated of like the finances are what's preventing me from expanding my family, there's something valid there. My brother-in-law, just another story to highlight this, his wife went into labor at 32 weeks. The baby was super tiny, like baby was four pounds, I think, maybe only just four pounds. When he got the hospital bill, he has really good insurance. Let me say that before we put a panic attack status on your listeners. He has really good insurance. Thank goodness. When he got the bill, it was $600,000 for his baby to be in the NICU for 34 days, for his wife to have a C-section. $600,000. And so this narrative makes sense. It's not out of nowhere. It's not out of scarcity. It's because it does cost money to have a kid from beginning to birth and even after. It's so
Speaker 04
07:12
wild to think about that. I've had people ask me like, oh, how much money did it cost to have your child in a hospital? Like not like just random people, people in my life. And I'm like, well, we also have really good insurance, but it also costs. I'm not even sure if I remember, but it was definitely over a thousand dollars. And I know a lot of people in America or even people that are listening, maybe don't even have that kind of money saved to put towards insurance. health care costs. So now you're on a payment plan or now you're putting on a credit card or you're doing something. And then, of course, that brings on more financial burden and stress.
Speaker 00
07:50
Right. Yeah. I mean, out of curiosity, as a financial therapist, I looked at all of my statements and it added up to about twenty five thousand dollars to have our kid with insurance covering most of that. So we paid about the twelve. So it was actually right on track for what I'd researched. I've had twelve thousand. It wasn't all at once. It was kind of, you know, for the next year after her birth because they were billing stuff and processing stuff. So that was kind of irritating if I'm being honest as a human to just not be done with it for about a year. But just to see that number and that was with a traditional birthing process with an induction because again, older millennial person here on your podcast. But if I'd had any kind of complications or maybe and I had to stay longer than that waiting period before you went home, of course, this would have racked up. Not to mention all the folks who have premature babies. And now are in the NICU and have a $600,000 statement saying this is what it costs to all those providers to help you and your baby. It's just wild.
Speaker 04
08:45
Yeah, I actually last week got my final statement from having my baby in 2023. This 2024, when we're recording this, she's over 13 months. And it wasn't a large bill, but I was like, okay, I hope this is the last one.
Speaker 00
09:00
Right? Yes. Why is this a year? Same. I had the same thing. She's turned a year old. Why am I still getting bills and statements about this? It's crazy. Yeah.
Speaker 04
09:11
Yeah. And I do think we all value the healthcare professionals that help give our birth and our baby some stability and a safety net. And so I don't want to sound like we're mad at healthcare, but it's just so expensive to take care of yourself in today's world with the amount of Yeah. Risks and et cetera, et cetera, that go into having birth.
Speaker 00
09:37
Yeah. And there's a lot of people experiencing infertility. And so those are extra costs that insurance sometimes doesn't even pay for. There's a lot of emotional elements to money, which is why financial therapy exists, because we're all about healing your relationship with money. You know, statements like money is emotional. I would rather talk about our sex lives than our money lives. So here you are talking about taboo topics. Absolutely. Money is part of that because they don't even want to talk about it. And so I think there are plenty of parents or soon-to-be parents that are looking at the numbers going, can we afford to have a child? When we look at child care, which you and I both have children in child care right now, there's lots of factors here. And absolutely, I loved the nurses. I loved the doctors. I had a great experience in my birth. And it made me pause of, could I expand my family, which we've decided not to do at the time of this recording. And part of it was financial.
Speaker 04
10:25
Yeah. I mean, the child care costs, I hear that from so many people, whether they're just people in my life or clients work, pay my mortgage, keep my kid in childcare, feed them, maybe take a day off even, like what a concept. It's just, yeah, the financial burden of going down the journey of parenthood is large and I imagine does make a lot of people pause. And there's constantly news articles, like you mentioned, kind of coming out that it costs this much amount of money to have a kid or you need to be making this much money in order to live comfortably and have a kid. And it's like, gosh, it makes sense why millennials are just waiting longer and why birth rates are kind of potentially slowing down or stagnant. I'm not really sure what the data is around there. I haven't done too much research, so I don't want to talk at a turn. But I know there's articles that get posted around like, oh, millennials are not having kids because of X, Y,
Speaker 00
11:26
and Z. Yeah. Yeah. And then I think you and I socially, I can only speak for myself, but I'm seeing a lot of people have a second child. So I think there are plenty of people who are figuring out how to make it work, but we're not going and asking them, tell me about your finances. How much debt do you have? What's on your credit card? Are you going to pay for this? We're not having these really intimate slash invasive conversations of how are you affording your second, third, fourth kid? Some people are making it work. Is it because they have a great job? Possibly. Do they have limited debt? Maybe. We don't have the full picture and we have lots of judgments coming out about how that looks and how they're making that happen. I mean, child care alone, you know, now we're at, what, $4,000 in child care? It's wild. Yeah.
Speaker 04
12:08
I even would love for the word evasive to be changed in our culture when we talk about money, because I think transparency does help eliminate anxiety and eliminate shame. around money. But yeah, everyone keeps the dollar signs close to their chest and they don't want to share what they spend on X, Y, and Z.
Speaker 00
12:31
Yeah. I mean, this comes up in the mental health field all the time when we ask our colleagues, what are you charging? And they're not telling you or it gets really weird and emotionally interesting. So yeah, I think the more we can talk about this with your audience, the more they can make an intentional choice of if I want children, maybe it's now about saving to have those children. That's what I ended up doing as a private practice therapist and mother. I saved for maternity leave because no one's paying me to take time off from my own business except me. And that itself felt like a privilege to have enough money to take four months off if I wanted to. I ended up just taking three, but I had a fourth month cushion. that I gave myself because I didn't know. I was a first-time mom. I didn't know what my body was going to do, what my mind was going to do, what my baby was going to be like. And then being able to also save for her birth and be like, all right, I can pay whatever bill comes in, however annoying or triggering it may be. I have the money ready. And so that was my journey. But I know a lot of families that feels like privilege that they are living paycheck to paycheck and they do not have savings for this journey that they're about to go on.
Speaker 04
13:34
Yeah. And I also want to do acknowledge that Because we live in Colorado, at least now, there's the FMLAI, which helps cover maternity leave. But I know it was not active both when you and I had our kids. It just became active this year of 2024. But even that, there's limitations on how I think successful it is if your employer doesn't decide to cover your health care costs while you're on that leave because they can make the decision to not cover maternity. their employer side. So then you might get a bill paying your entire insurance out of pocket. So great that the state of Colorado is doing that. But I think there could always be more done to protect families. And more
Speaker 00
14:19
about that transparency. This is how it works. Here's how it doesn't work. Here are the limitations. There's so much we're learning and finances continue to change. Right. So at the time of this recording, we're saying twelve thousand dollars is what you need minimum to have this buffer to have a child. Maybe that number goes up to 20,000 next year. I don't know. I mean, I'm not planning to have more children, so I'm not tracking it to that level, but I wouldn't be surprised because of cost of living and inflation. The number is going to keep climbing. Just like the number to raise a child zero to 18 has gone out to 250,000. That wasn't always the case.
Speaker 04
14:50
Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious as a financial therapist, when you're working with therapists or people who are trying to think this through and talk it through and heal their money stories around can they afford something? What is your general approach to that?
Speaker 00
15:09
Yeah, I mean, for a lot of these folks, it's just figuring out what their money beliefs are, which you and I have talked offline about what that looks like. But for your audience, money beliefs are on average, we have 50 to 200 of them and they drive our money behaviors. So belief money is good, money is bad, money is opportunity, money is power, money is corrupt, money is evil. It just depends on where you are coming from. Some of those money beliefs are ours to own, and some of them are our parents and our grandparents, and they've instilled them in us. So I have grandparents that survived the Great Depression, so I saw them save, save, save and hoard, actually. I had hoarders on both sides of my family. There's a reason I have minimal stuff. Because of that, it changes our behavior. And so watching them put that on my parents, who then put that on my sister and me, It's no wonder that we're both workaholic entrepreneurs because we have this vigilance about money because that was passed on from other two generations. But sometimes it's doing that kind of work, getting curious about what are my money beliefs? What are the beliefs of my family? What do I want to hold? And what do I want to let go of? And so that's the money healing work of financial therapy. Once they do some of that work around money beliefs, then we go into the behaviors. Do you want to have a savings account? Do you want to tackle debt? What does that look like now that we've healed some things first?
Speaker 03
Yeah.
Speaker 00
So
Speaker 04
16:24
it's both healing as well as pragmatic action. It sounds like it's kind of a two-step approach to working with people when dealing with finances.
Speaker 00
16:35
Oh, yeah. And a lot of the folks that come in, maybe they did pragmatic or practical tips first and it didn't stick, like a diet that failed in 30 days because they're like, I didn't do any of the healing I needed to do. I still have this internal story about money, but you're telling me just make a budget, which sounds so Nippy here on your podcast, the SaaS is there for a reason because so many people feel shame about budgets. But financial therapists don't actually like budgets. We think budgets are bad. We're all about conscious spending plans and knowing where your money's going and having that curiosity without the shame of, oh, I hit a limit and I went above it and now I failed at life. Yeah, it sounds pretty dramatic, but you know what I mean.
Speaker 04
17:13
I think there's a lot of things and a lot of people potentially in articles out there that have prescriptive ways to deal with things, whether that's like you mentioned already, how to manage your food or how to, you know, increase your sex life or how to manage your money. And OK, those might be helpful tips. But if you don't feel the wounds that have led to the behaviors that you now need tips for, you're going to unfortunately repeat the cycle. At least that's what has been shown over and over again.
Speaker 00
17:43
Yeah. I mean, this, this image might be a little bit gross to some of your listeners, but like to me, it's like a festering one that we just slapped a bandaid on. It's still infected. It's still pussy. We just put a bandaid over the top saying there's your solution. It's contained now, but we didn't actually heal in this case, like eradicate the infection, you know, the next steps more possible. I'm all about images. That was probably a little graphic. Sorry, listeners, but that's, That's it. I'm
Speaker 04
18:10
laughing because I have a supervisor for my sex therapy training and she gives the imagery of hemorrhoid that certain things are just like hemorrhoids. And unless you actually deal with it and heal with it, even if it goes away for a while, it's going to pop back up and it goes away for a while to pop back up. So we need to really flesh things out and explore and heal rather than just push down and ignore. So Yeah, I was just laughing because they're all so very graphic. Three of them, right?
Speaker 00
That's
Speaker 04
true.
Speaker 00
18:43
Yeah, any pregnant person might actually understand that. I'm like, well, I've got my pregnant body. Did X, Y, Z. I know what a hemorrhoid is. That's
Speaker 04
18:55
true. Yeah, but I think your emotions and mental health issues are like that. Even if you've maybe even healed some of your money story, And if another thing comes up and there's still some lingering things going on, you know, it could redevelop and you might need even more time working through that problem with a therapist or a financial therapist.
Speaker 00
19:17
Yeah. And I just posted yesterday, I know this will go out later, but like I just posted about warning signs with your money of what do you need to be tracking? So, you know, we have a hemorrhoid, we have an infection wound. We can also just go playful and say the beach ball where we try and show that that pops up somewhere else. That's what warning signs are. Like, where's this popping up? Are you starting to fight about how much you spent out with your partner? Are you fixating on how much something costs? Are you losing sleep at night? Are you compulsively checking your bank account? These are all money behaviors that aren't healthy by any means. They're on the extreme end. And so whether it's hypervigilance or avoidance, those are kind of the two ends of the spectrum. Folks are trying to navigate, how do I have neutrality with my money? Which is where financial therapy comes in for a lot of those people.
Unknown
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 00
Yeah,
Speaker 04
20:05
I think something that, you know, I'll just notice or self-disclose and notice something that's happened for me is becoming a mom with money is like, and I've noticed my mom do this. And again, like, love my mom, don't want to say anything negative, but she'll spend money on all of her kids before she'll spend money on herself. And there's this pattern that I've even noticed for myself. Oh, let's get Ella five new outfits or let's do this nice thing for Elda's birthday. But then when it came time to celebrate my birthday or time for me to buy something for myself, I'm like, oh, do I really need that? Should I actually spend that money or should I save it? Like, well, you know, who's to say what's more quote unquote valuable? Both are probably equally valuable to some extent. And so trying to even work through how you spend your money in relation to your child, I think would probably be a huge thing for people to work on in financial therapy.
Speaker 00
21:00
Absolutely. I mean, I'm sure a lot of your listeners relate to that. I'm like, you know, that the state as we die for our kid, we'd also like buy them anything they want. Part of that is the heartstrings and attachment. Part of that is consumerism saying, hey, as a parent, you don't know what you don't know. So buy this new trinket, buy this newest car seat, buy this new thing that's like Montessori and awesome. And then there's the running joke that they just want some Tupperware and some pots and pans that are totally fine. So there is a predatory component here. I remember coming across it as a new mom where it was like, Here are all the thousands of dollars we spend on cribs and high chairs and strollers and things when maybe the basic one was just fine and still safe, right? Because safety is still important to me and probably to you as a mother. But I don't need all the bells and whistles. I don't want to go into debt $3,000 for this exclusive stroller kind of example. So I remember coming across an article that was like, hey, we're actually preying on first-time parents who don't know what they don't know. We're saying this is the most safe thing. This is the most vetted thing. Buy this thing. There's actually a sales and marketing consumerism piece here. That's something else I just wanted to call out.
Speaker 04
22:05
Oh, yeah, for sure. I feel like I've had a lot of conversations with other new moms about this very specific thing where it's OK, this I don't want to call out brands, but this very nice bassinet will rock your baby to sleep and you need this in order to survive. Because otherwise you're going to be sleep deprived and just angry all the time. And that's what's being said. And so especially as a new mom being sleep deprived, you almost start believing that I need this thing. They're telling me that this is going to help my baby sleep, which would then in turn help me sleep. So I need, quote unquote, to buy this thing. Yeah, it's definitely predatory for sure.
Speaker 00
22:45
And part of that is genius on their part because they're looking at a pain point, which is a lot of new parents are sleep deprived. That's kind of a given. And they're saying, how do I speak to that person? How do I get to the pain point and solve their problem? So that marketing strategy of like, hey, your baby needs to sleep so you can sleep is like win-win of why someone hears my credit card. Please give me that assonant on a kind of darker note. This also is why scam artists are so effective because they look at your pain point. They get you in your most vulnerable, in this case, sleep deprived, and they get you to say yes to something you actually didn't want. So I'm not saying the bassinet company is the scam artist, but it's the same mentality of let's get you at your most vulnerable. Maybe you're distracted, sleep deprived, hungry, and we get you to say yes. And then you walk away going, how did that happen? Well, I wasn't fully present. I was sleep deprived. I wasn't well. Yeah. And that's how scam artists actually get you, which is a different colleague's work that I'm fascinated by. Yeah.
Speaker 04
23:36
It sounds like mindfulness is really important when it comes to money. and the way that you respond to the triggers that are being activated when you either hear a sales pitch or you're on the internet late at night scrolling of just, okay, how can I be interacting with this more mindfully rather than, oh, I see this Instagram story that tells me I'm going to be able to sleep. I need to follow down the rabbit hole to see what the product is that they're selling me.
Speaker 00
24:04
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's just so much here to unpack for parents and For a lot of people, it's just starting with curiosity. Mindfulness is what we aspire to, but first step, just be curious. Notice the reactions in your body. Maybe do a quick body scan. Here's my mental health therapist's hat going up. Where is that limit in your body to be like, okay, I'm vulnerable right now. I need something to shift. And so curiosity is the first step to combat that shame that naturally shows up of what just happened. Why did I spend $3,000 that I didn't have? Curiosity can be a first step for a lot of people.
Speaker 04
24:35
Yeah. I'd imagine... Curiosity is a great first step, but I'm also hearing some need for acceptance so we don't get stuck in that shame spiral. Because I imagine, just again, speaking for myself, if I would have woken up the next day and realized that I spent $3,000, I'd probably be sending myself into a tailspin. So just being gentle with yourself during that process, I think, is really valuable for a lot of people.
Speaker 00
25:05
A lot of financial therapists talk about compassion and zero judgment. And that's what I think you just described there. It's not even acceptance. It's just like some compassion of what was going on for me to say that this was a purchase that I needed in that moment. What if my needs were neglected for me to go that direction, right? So a different, I'm in a part of a mom group and I really appreciate them because last time we met last month, they're like, how do you know if your needs are being met? This is a big question. We're gonna ask this to five moms with our toddlers all running around. And it was like, huh, some of it is untapped needs lead to behaviors. In my case, sometimes untapped needs lead to resentment. And so that's where the emotional part of money comes in of like, was I craving comfort? So was I craving convenience because I'm sleep deprived? So I got everything delivered to my door. Was it, I thought that this thing was going to help my baby, which would help me. There's so much emotional stuff woven in here. And that's why we also need compassion. You're human. You're allowed to be like, they got me. That was great marketing. I want that thing.
Unknown
Yeah.
Speaker 00
26:03
And you can own that and be compassionate with zero judgment as you figure out how you want to navigate that in the future. It's already happened. How do we move forward?
Speaker 04
26:11
Yeah. Well, I'm glad that we're really having this conversation because I feel like, especially in early postpartum for myself, I felt like, gosh, I just need whatever's going to quote unquote help me solve these problems. But I personally also had this mindset of, I'm not going to let these companies get me. Yeah. Like I already knew a little bit about marketing and how it worked, just being in business for myself too. So I was like, okay, I hear what they're saying. And can I actually guarantee that this is going to solve my problem? Absolutely not. Yeah.
Speaker 00
26:43
Yeah. And some of that's coming from your money beliefs, right? Or your parents or grandparents, again, whoever instilled it in you. Because as you said that, I was trying to think about how did I show up as a first time mom? Well, I knew my kid was going to destroy all clothes. I didn't ask for new clothes. I went to the secondhand kid's store because then I wasn't so resentful at her when she stained something. More true now than ever in pre-preschool as a two and a half year old. I'm not upset because I didn't pay full price for said thing that you have all over as of one day at school. But I think, you know, it just shows how subtle this can be because I'm sitting here thinking about what did I do? And it's my parents' beliefs that were still there. They were sneaky. They were there being like, Try and buy the high quality thing once and never have to replace it. So I was like, I'm going to buy the car seat that moves into four different positions. So she has it until she's 10 years old. And I was like, that's totally my dad. I'm like, we're on this. Well, it's Thread. But that was what he instilled in me. You buy the high quality thing. You buy the brand you know and trust. You don't start with something bright, shiny, new. You go with the brands you've heard of for years and years. And you invest in it and you never replace it because it's going to stay with them. And not all parents know that strategy. But for some of your listeners, hell yeah, that was how I was taught. Not other people. I want the new thing that might make my life even easier than this thing that's been around for 20 years. But there's no right quote unquote way to go. But that curiosity of where did that come from? And right here in this podcast, I'm like, that's dad. That's my dad. Maximizer to a T. Let's go buy the bulk thing at Costco versus I only need one. But it's a cheaper price. Buy it while it's on sale. And that's so pervasive in my family. So. calling out all the people today. I
Speaker 04
28:23
can really, yeah, I guess that was my story too. I have a high chair that technically is supposed to go with her until she's in a booster seat. Obviously doesn't need that as a newborn when she first used it at six months, but you know, supposedly it's going to last me forever. And I'm like, oh, that's a good investment, Stephanie. Good job. I even sat myself on the back for the decision. Because, yeah, there's this like, oh, I beat the system sort of mindset. And that definitely comes from my parents and this idea of being thrifty and out scamming, being the scam artist as the purchaser.
Speaker 00
28:59
Beating that system for sure. Yeah. And that makes us feel empowered. So that's why I think all of us have to just get curious of where are these money beliefs? What are they? Where'd they come from? Because they're just woven in. And until we question them, we just go with the flow. oh, I didn't even second guess that I made that purchase because it felt so natural until we talk about it in a place like this. And it's like, huh, whose was that? Is that mine to own or is that parents or society or my first boss or whatever system you belong to? They all have beliefs about money. Yeah.
Speaker 04
29:34
So many good things I feel like we could talk about because I just had another idea, but that's going to take us down a whole rabbit hole. What?
Speaker 00
Chris
Speaker 04
29:42
Hager? You can't do that to me. Well, okay. So that thought that I had when you were mentioning other people in society were like people who either have been to church or have been religious or have been in a community where giving is really helpful to maintain society and cohesiveness and things like that. Yeah. And so for myself, I think, gosh, I was so grateful for all the free clothes that I got as a first time mom. And I've repeated that cycle of, okay, I want to give everything that I have to somebody who's also been in that situation. And I gave so much. to one of my coworkers who happened to be pregnant six months after me. I'm like, perfect. You're also having a girl. Perfect. Let's just give you everything. But I think to myself, that is definitely also another money bleep. Even though it wasn't actually exchange of dollars, it was this mindset of, okay, I've been gifted something, so I need to gift. Even though I didn't really need to do that. But again, it goes back to this money bleep. mindset, even though there was an exchange of, again, actual dollars from hand to hand. I
Speaker 00
30:56
remember. Well, yeah, on one hand, we're talking about tithing, which I've actually had financial therapy clients who were still tithing their church while financially putting themselves in distress, which is a true definition of noble poverty, which is something I talk to therapists about all day, every day. So for listeners, noble poverty, quick definition, you put yourself in financial distress to help others, right? So whether that's your church or maybe you're in a nonprofit or you're a therapist or all these people tend to go, oh, I didn't know that was a thing. And I feel called out. On the other hand, to kind of play double-dog kit, other side of the coin, I also was feeling like I got a lot of things from my family members who had children before me. So they passed on clothes. And from that generosity, I also, like you, felt like I wanted to be generous. So because I didn't invest or pay for those things, I felt even more comfortable giving them away for free to the next person down the line. And so some of that is money belief. Some of that is financial stability and saying, I don't need to make money to sell these things back to someone. And for me, it's actually part superstition. I want the good karma that comes from helping other parents. I'm like, please take this thing. I've kept it clean. It's nice. I definitely don't give it with crumbs and nastiness still attached to it. But there's something that feels really good to me as a human to pass on those things. One, because I don't like clutter. I already outed that I have family members who are hoarders. But two, it felt like I was giving myself good karma to say, someone did this kindness for me, I'm going to do it for them. So yes, I hear you. It could be the religious aspect, but also I think it could be a values-based thing. Hey, if I feel financially stable, does that allow generosity? Which we do see with people of all backgrounds. If I have enough money, quote unquote, I'm more likely to be generous, like donations, sharing, gifting, that kind of thing. That's an interesting shift for people in financial therapy or money work. It took place with I am financially stable. Now all possibilities are endless. I can be generous for the first time without having to question what will this cost me to do that? Yeah.
Speaker 04
32:52
Yeah. Yeah. So I was just thinking it's so prevalent, at least in the mom group that I'm in of like, oh, you need this thing. I have extra or oh, you have. This other thing, if you learn this thing from your kid, because he's three months older than my kid, let me share you what I learned. And you don't have to buy that quote unquote product. It's been sold on Instagram. And so I think, yeah, I don't know if that's a way to continue this work for yourself of just like exploring what does it mean to give and share and be reciprocal and to feel connected to your community. Because that's another reason why I created this podcast is to create community and create connection between other people. But that's one way that I felt grounded in my experience of becoming a new parent is knowing that other new parents are kind of going through the same thing that I am. And most of the people that I've run into, at least in my circle, have also been really generous, both with things and information.
Speaker 00
33:47
Yeah, absolutely. I mean. This is the whole journey that most of us go on if we choose to become parents or can become parents. It's also just thinking, don't get caught up in what things cost right in this moment as you're listening to this podcast. Check the numbers when you're ready as part of your planning process. Like, hey, I have nine, almost 10 months, potentially, hopefully. The plan isn't saying, do I need to change what the budget looks like if I have a budget? Or in our case, a conscious spending plan of what do diapers cost? How many of them am I going to need? I remember trying to figure out how many I had to carry in the diaper bag if I was gone all day with my baby. What's the math? I don't know. Do I need seven? Do I need 10? How much does this kid get to, you know, let go of all the things? And so I think for a lot of people, they get stuck at here's what my budget or my grocery bill was before kids. But now we need to reevaluate what it is now. So that's, I think, a tidbit for the listeners is don't go off old numbers. Re-evaluate at the three-month mark. Your baby is now three months old. What are the costs coming in? Is it diapers? Is it a formula? Is it other stuff? Don't work with old numbers because you're setting yourself up to fail. And then now we have shame of like, oh, I can't even keep to my budget. The budget's not up to date. It's not realistic for a family of three, four, five, whatever that may be.
Speaker 04
34:59
Yeah. And also looking at the budget as prices change too, because I think there's also some anger and resentment that probably comes from the cost of something. Like, gosh, I thought this box of diapers was $45 last month and now it's $50 and now I'm pissed off at the diaper company. You can be upset about that, but unfortunately when it comes to diapers, you either buy diapers or you get those... cloth diapers and then have to do all the extra work that is required there. So whichever way you go, obviously there's still work and investment involved. So yeah, I'm trying to just notice what you have control over and what you don't and try to figure out where you can influence your circle rather than feeling completely out of control.
Speaker 00
35:47
Exactly. Yeah. never stagnant. So we have to keep checking it out. Maybe it's a quick money meeting with yourself, three months, six months, when the baby's a year old. The things you buy are going to be different at all those stages. Now they're going to eat food at six months and beyond. That's going to change the budget for lots of things. Yeah, I think curiosity continues to be the foundation of everything we're talking about. Just get curious, ask some questions, look at some numbers, which for those folks that are listening who are avoidant, that's a big deal to even just look at your numbers and get to know them. Versus the hypervigilance, don't take that to the extreme. Look at them once a day and call it good. Don't compulsively check all day as one example. But yeah, even as I think about having a two and a half year old at the time of this recording, her needs at three are going to probably look a little bit different. Maybe not dramatically so because she's not changing as much as three months to six months to nine months. But it's an evolving thing. And so none of us are going to always have it figured out. We have to continue to make a conscious effort to check it out.
Speaker 04
36:43
Yeah. Well, I want to thank you for, you know, coming on and talking with everyone. And yeah, what sort of things are you working on and where can people find you? And yeah, I'd love people to continue knowing what work you're doing.
Speaker 00
36:58
Yeah. So the book you mentioned at the beginning of our episode today, it's going to be called Your Enneagram and Money. So it's going to look at Enneagram edges. So there's the good edges of when you're really succeeding and healthy and balanced. Then there's the shadow edges. Oh, this is your warning signs. You got to work on something. which I think is why you and I love the Enneagram. So here's all the shadow stuff you want to improve and address, which therapists love. So that book is going to come out hopefully January 2025. The folks can hopefully follow me on Instagram or wherever you want to follow to see when that book launches. It really was meant for under earners, which could be parents, which could be mothers, which could be therapists. Our audience is pretty broad that way of who is not making up enough money for the lifestyle that they want. So that book's coming out. All of my entrepreneur projects are on my website, which I'm sure Stephanie can link below if you want to. But yeah, as a serial entrepreneur, I'm always building something. Specifically, I work with therapists right now. But as a mother, that is definitely now integrated into my identity. And so because a lot of therapists identify as women and potentially mothers, there's a lot of intersection there. And I'm really happy to do this work.
Speaker 04
38:02
Awesome. Yes. All of the information will be linked in the show notes on the website. And on the podcast so everyone can find everything that you're doing. So thank you so much for coming on today.
Speaker 00
Thank
Speaker 04
38:14
you. Thank you all for listening. I hope you found some inspiration, validation, had some questions answered, or just enjoyed listening to this week's episode. I encourage you to check out our website, well-minded counseling.com backslash redefining us pod for any resources that were mentioned in today's episode. Check out my new program on our website as well for first-time moms, where you can join other women entering into motherhood. The program offers three phases, phase one, exploring where you are on your journey towards motherhood and connecting with this new identity. Phase two, preparing your mind, body, and spirit for giving birth. And phase three, reconnecting to yourself while caring for your baby. I truly appreciate if you leave a review and rating so other women can find us as well. Thank you all for listening again and keep on connecting with yourself and with others in the community and redefining us.