Episode 28: Reclaiming Yourself Beyond Burnout with Jenn Ohlinger

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What if burnout wasn’t just about work, but about the weight of roles and expectations we’ve carried for far too long?

I'm sitting down with Jenn Ohlinger, a holistic coach, critical care nurse, and host of the Empowered Ease podcast. Jenn brings more than a decade of experience in critical care nursing, her own journey through severe burnout, and her passion for helping women heal through empowerment and community.

Jenn shares how the culture of caregiving, both in healthcare and in women’s everyday lives, often pushes us to put others first at the expense of our own well-being. She opens up about her own health struggles, what it took to realize she needed to rebuild her relationship with herself, and why community has been the cornerstone of her healing.

Together, Stephanie and Jenn explore:

• How burnout shows up differently for women, especially those navigating perimenopause or neurodivergence.

• The “good girl” conditioning that makes boundaries so difficult and why saying “no” is both necessary and revolutionary.

• The subtle but powerful ways women can challenge patriarchal norms by embracing their rhythms and honoring their needs.

• The role of community in validating our experiences, helping us feel less alone, and even celebrating our wins in ways only those who “get it” can.

• The emotional toll, and deep honor, of nursing, and why leadership and support are crucial to protect the healers in our healthcare system.

Healing doesn’t happen in isolation. It happens when we slow down, listen to our bodies, reclaim our boundaries, and connect with others who understand the journey.

If you’ve ever felt the weight of burnout, struggled with boundaries, or questioned your role as a caregiver, this conversation will meet you right where you are.

• Transcript

  SPEAKER_01: 0:48

  Welcome to Redefine Us, where we explore sexuality, identity, motherhood, and mental health to help women thrive authentically. Let's break free from roles that limit us and create a life where you can truly be yourself. Today on the episode, we have Den Ohlinger, who is an RN and is a holistic coach. She spends lots of years as a critical care nurse and has begun a podcast in a community called Empowered Ease. She specializes in burnout and women's health and empowerment. Her podcast delves into the transformative stories of healers, health practitioners, and everyday women just like you challenging the patriarchal framework through empowerment and holistic healing. Really excited for you to hear today's podcast. I feel like she has a lot of great insight on women's health and empowerment and burnout, and it's a great listen. So love to just dive right in. Welcome back to Redefining Us. I'm your host, Stephanie Contra O'Hara. And today I have with me Jen Olinger. And so happy that you're on today, Jen. After being on your podcast, I'm glad to have you online. So yeah, I'd love to hear your story and why you decided to start podcasting.

  SPEAKER_00: 2:17

  Yeah. Well, I first of all, I'm so happy to be here. Thank you. It's nice to be chatting again. I had so much fun with you. Yeah. So my story. Well, I am at by trade, like my day job is the critical care nerd. I've been doing that for a little over a decade. I recently transitioned into a leadership role, but until this year, I've been bedside in like every critical care setting. And that is most people know the healthcare system is pretty broken. And that we're not going to fix it anytime soon. But as a result of that, there's just a lot of mental health issues with healthcare workers and nurses. And as a result of having that job for so long, I burnt out like very, very, I would say, habitual, awful burnout to the point I was having like health consequences. I was on like blood pressure meds, meds for heart rate. I had like stroke level blood pressures. It was just feeling like my life was falling apart and I couldn't figure out why. And I'm 41 now. So like perimenopause started hitting me in my early 30s, which I didn't know that at first, because like we're just learning now about how that stuff starts in your early 30s. So, ladies, if you're feeling crazy, it's probably perimenopause. Like most of the things that we like say off, like, oh, you know, blame it and we don't really think it is. Like now I'm learning most of them are. But anyway, so nursing got really burnt out. And as a result of that, I started kind of went more holistic, like went back to my roots, the things that I do for myself, and really discovered that this is all about healing the relationship with myself and got into coaching. And now I coach a lot of healthcare women, a lot of nurses through burnout themselves. But in that, I found this huge role of community, like what a lot of us are lacking, or just how impactful it can be in our healing. I'm also like, I have some trauma in my past, currently like seeing a trauma therapist. That's a huge part of that too, like talking in community. And so is like grief healing. Like I'm, you know, from IC that also I think requires a community to really fully heal. And so I got really into podcasting. I love to talk because that should be clear here. Talk forever. I'm a verbal processor. I'm really social from being a nurse. And I just have so many coaches and so many people in my world. And I don't really, I'm not really into like selling myself. I I just wanted to like bring people together, show everyone like there's all these things available. Like healthcare, where in my eyes, one of the big broken pieces is that we do no preventative education anymore. It's like teaching people how to avoid the system. And I think this holistic, this is where it starts, like building the relationship with yourself, learning to listen to your body. And so my passion now is the podcast. I connect with other women who are encouraging people to do that through a lot of different modalities. And I think that once we get down to the root of it, a lot of them are teaching the same thing. It's just what brings you in, who draws your attention. So I try to share personal stories of how people got into what they do, what inspired them. And there is some crazy stuff. Like you're like, oh my gosh, just people live through the craziest thing. And what a lot of hurt people who've experienced grief, who've experienced trauma. We want to help others. We want to help people avoid that. We want to help people heal. We don't want people to suffer the way we suffered. And so it's just beautiful to share the stories. And for me, it's what keeps me going, especially in the current political climate and all the things going on, how difficult it is to be a woman nowadays when I connect with other women like you and you came on my podcast. It's just so inspiring to know there's other people out there that care and are really trying to make a difference. And yeah, so that's kind of my story and where I'm at and what I'm doing. Yeah.

  SPEAKER_01: 5:49

  Yeah, I do think a great thing about podcasting is it really like puts you in front of other people who have similar like-minded goals as far as like connecting people and leveling up the energy when it comes to like women empowerment and like kind of the solidarity of what it's like to be a caregiver for all in a lot of ways. And I imagine, especially as a critical care nurse, you've really been in the role of being a caregiver to all. How do you think that informs the way that you show up in your coaching or on your podcast?

  SPEAKER_00: 6:27

  Oh my gosh, that is such a great question because I feel like that's a lot of what we're all making peace with, right? Like we're all trying to find this balance. And that naturally a lot of us are caregivers, whether that's pushed upon us by like the societal pressures of being a woman. I mean, a big part of what I say we do is challenge the patriarchy. And that sounds like this really like, oh, battle John thing, but it's a subtle, it's a subtle challenge. It's just allowing women to be women, do things on their own time. I mean, before we started talking today, we were just talking about how like, you know, energy shifts and how sometimes it takes a while for people to get back to us. And we allow for that. That's the feminine embrace. That's the challenge of the patriarchy that I'm encouraging is like women to find their own way. And for me, people pleasing, caregiving, you know, that's something actually that's part of my trauma. Like, um, not to go too personally into it, but you know, at a very young age, something happened in my life that made my first memory actually is one of me standing up, feeling like I had to be the protector for everyone around me. And that's a role that I still really struggle to put down. It's probably why I became a nurse because it's what makes me feel good enough when I take care of people. But that's also that, which oh my God, every woman, every role and every mother, we put other people's needs before ourselves and we will drain our battery. We'll just drain our battery like as a martyr to save everyone around us, and then we have nothing left to give. So that's the aspect of that that I think comes in so big in my coaching and in my podcast is teaching women that like it's okay. I know there's circumstances where we put people first, right? Your babies, that's different. But there is a lot of situations where it's okay to put yourself first, and even with your children, it's okay to put yourself first and meet your needs, and you end up showing up better in the long run. And you're also setting an example for them to show up for themselves, not to put other people's needs first. And for women, our culture really, really pressures us to make everyone happy, be the people pleasers, set the tone for everyone, fix people's emotions, read the room. And that is a lot to put on all of us. So we're all balancing that weight.

  SPEAKER_01: 9:24

  Yeah, I think it's interesting. Something that has come up for me recently is noticing this resentment that I end up feeling when two people who are perfectly capable of like communicating to each other, attempt to communicate like through me. And I'm like, I'm not participating in this anymore, right? This is a role that I'm rejecting and like, why don't the two of you speak to each other? Well, I go do this okay.

  SPEAKER_00: 9:51

  I love that you say that. That's such a prevalent thing in healthcare, honestly, because people don't want to talk to each other. So there's so much, like, that's where a lot of communication breaks down. Uh, but so funny you say that because it reminds me of this situation with my husband that I always joke about. My I feel like I tell it with clients all the time, too, because like I my husband bought this pool table. And so we the man we bought the pool table from, my husband is buying the pool table, and the man we hired to move the pool table. All three of them are in the same location, and I'm at work, and they are all three texting me to communicate with each other between this house move. And I'm thinking, like, oh, this is how much they're avoiding talking to each other. You know what I mean? What I mean. I and that's it was just like the funniest thing, but I feel like that happens in so many ways, subtly played out, and as women, we just naturally pick it up. I probably set it up. That's probably why they're all contacting with me because I'm the one that's recharged. And so now they're all contacting me instead of con, you know, because I will do it. So, but I feel like we put ourselves in that role a lot.

  SPEAKER_01: 10:48

  Yeah, I even in TV shows, I've noticed that narrative occasionally like pop up where the woman is like, I need to stop doing this for you, right? And I think people need to be talking about that little piece of even dismantling the role that we have fallen into of like that we can suddenly carry it all. And we can help.

  SPEAKER_00: 11:10

  Yeah, we go to work nowadays and we come home and do the whole house. You know what I mean? I know the younger generations that's changing because I work with a lot of young nurses and they're these male nurses, they're like splitting house chores and stuff like that. But I'm like, that's not really very prevalent where I where I came from. You know, that's a struggle to find that balance because I don't know. I I feel like I it's also not my partner's fault all the time. You know, it's mine and I want to make things easy for people. I want to take care of people. I want and it I create that for myself sometimes where no one's asking me to do these things. I'm stressing myself out because I I'm somehow put this pressure on myself that I need to.

  SPEAKER_01: 11:47

  Mm-hmm. Yeah, and acknowledging what it is like self-inflicted, I think is a hard thing for a lot of people to be honest with themselves about. Oh my gosh, yes, yes. I imagine I see that a lot in coaching people through like burnout, even right. Like, oh yeah, you probably don't need to take up all these extra shifts and you probably don't need to take on the weight of what this person said to you. And how can you like leave it there in the room or leave it on the table and not bring it home with you?

  SPEAKER_00: 12:15

  Yeah, I think um one, I can't remember one of the coaches I had, I think it was like Micah Walker. We were talking about, she's like, you know, I ask people when they come and they're like in crisis, right? So burnt out, what is your why? Why are you doing this? You know what I mean? And she and she's like, I find that at a certain age, a lot of people don't know anymore. You know what I mean? It there's a point where that shifts. You know what I mean? We start off really driven. I'd say like in your 20s, you're trying to prove who you are, find your place in the world, you know, stand alone. This is who I am. And as we get older, that becomes less and less important. And we start valuing like peace and things like that. And so sometimes whatever we're driving for, whatever we're working for, all the it doesn't make as much sense anymore. So it's like we're putting all this energy out in all these ways, and it's hard to hone that unless we slow down and check in. And that's the big piece. That's the one I think everyone's trying to teach everyone else is slow down, check in, listen to what's really going on. But it's so hard. And I describe it almost like this we're all on our tiptoes, you know, trying to get everything done, tilting forward, almost falling, but we're all like riding that line, trying to get as much done as we can. And we're skipping out some of the stuff really, and I'm guilty of it too. I'm not like here preaching, like, oh, I take care of myself so well every day. Because the truth is I drop the ball a lot too, but I'm always trying. I'm a work in progress. And things like this help remind me to stay present, to keep doing that. And that's the piece of community is like if we're checking in, if we're having these honest conversations where I'm owning that like some of this is my fault, then you know, it validates their feelings or maybe a different perspective, or that they're not alone, or that like, you know, you're sometimes it feels very isolating also to accept where we're when we're wrong, when we've done, you know, like when I find my bad, what I'm bad at or where I'm failing, like I feel isolated and alone and like what's wrong with me. But when I hear another woman share that she struggles the same, it's like okay, we're never really alone. Yeah, we're all struggling with similar things. There's somebody who's gonna understand. And that's the big piece of community I like to push is if you can find someone who really understands what you're going through. There's so much power in that conversation. Like that you don't even know until you hear them say it. Like you you can't validate things, we can't validate things for ourselves sometimes until we hear another person's experience of it. And then things just click.

  SPEAKER_01: 14:34

  Yeah, the normalization and like validation from others is is huge in this sense of like, oh, this isn't like crazy making. This is like, you know, actually what the experience is. Other people are going through this too. Cause I think you can be in a place where you're like, Am I making a bigger deal out of this than it really is? Yeah. When I've been giving even therapy to people who are at the brink of burnout, like, oh, I should be able to do this. Like everybody goes to work every single day and you know, grinds. And I'm like, yes, and is that really what's helpful for you though?

  SPEAKER_00: 15:14

  Yeah. And you know, everybody does struggle sometimes. You may not see it, but you know, and people do take time off, you know, so we don't always see everything that's going on around us either. But yeah, yeah, this is a common struggle. I feel like it's more prevalent everywhere. And the traditional sense of the word burnout is like work-related. And anybody who works in it knows that's not true. It's personal, you know. You know, I think the number one thing that the first people that will burn out in a group are people that are neurodivergent, so people on the spectrum, people who are ADHD. And if you're a woman in perimenopause, then your ADHD is probably going crazy. And so you're burning out easier because you're spending so much more time managing that because your hormones are all over the place. And there's just a lot of factors at play in being a woman in the world today. I mean, being a person in the world today, I specialize in women, so I say that. And I don't want to just credit men in any way because they have their own struggles. But my thing is women, so I speak directly to men.

  SPEAKER_01: 16:06

  Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious when people are neurodivergent, because just because you mentioned that, what are the signs of burnout similar to maybe someone who doesn't identify as neurodivergent? Or is the onset just quicker? I was hoping maybe speak to that a little bit.

  SPEAKER_00: 16:21

  Yeah, the onset is quicker. I mean, they've studied they'll be the first in a group because they already carry the stress of masking for the most part and dealing with the days. And what they'll start having trouble um like with tick, with uh what do you call that? Like um executive functioning, things like that, brain fog, things like that will start emerging in them before other people on average, just because they're already, they already have that added pressure. So, like a lot of other things contribute to birdhouse, people that have a lot of things going on, think of like women, we're juggling many roles. So if you're juggling a lot of roles. Also, if you have family stuff going on, like a lot of my clients, we're talking about work here. And the real issue is there's a boundary that needs to be held in their personal life with with it's usually family, but it's not always family. But you know what I mean. We all will family things come up. We we feel obligated or the need to take on sometimes more than is fair, sometimes not, sometimes we're not comfortable asking for help. So, really, it's a lot of like just assessing the whole picture of where we're at. A lot of it is personal things, contributing to an already stressful work life and life that you have. So and neurodiverge is just one more thing on the puzzle that makes it harder.

  SPEAKER_01: 17:28

  Yeah. I mean, I would add that like most of the people that I've worked with too like don't even just like giving the answer no to people, and like it can be that simple. And I sometimes wonder to myself, is there this other narrative that goes around in their brain? And sometimes we explore that and other people are really not wanting to, but like this idea of like, if you say no, does that make you a bad person? If you say no, does that make you weak? You know, if that if you say no, does that mean that you're a bad friend?

  SPEAKER_00: 18:02

  Like or people won't like you.

  SPEAKER_01: 18:04

  Yeah, or you'll never get asked another time again, and you won't have the opportunity to say yes when you want to say yes. So you have to say yes when you don't want to say yes, because there may never be another chance to say yes. I'm like, okay, now we're really getting into the weeds here of like all of this anxiety around saying no. And I think that's, you know, where really good work happens for a lot of people. And I imagine you see that in your practice as well.

  SPEAKER_00: 18:28

  Oh, for sure, for sure. And we like, I there's a couple of things that that we've like, because you know, as a specific population, that's a real, that's is the issue they're there for or they're here with me for. We talk about like gentlenes at first because some people have to ease into it. We practice our nos with safe people, we practice holding boundaries with people that we practice. I'm gonna start holding boundaries with you as a practice because I know you're a safe person. You know, like we do things like that. But also one thing that I love, and I actually got this from a close friend who lost a child. And for her, going out in public for the first couple of years was awful because the question that women always ask each other, how many kids do you have? She's like, I don't know how to answer it. Like, you know what I mean? And I think this is a good equation to boundaries in that well, all we had to do was come up with a couple phrases that she could lock into every time of three ways she can choose to answer that. And that's the same for boundaries. So, like, what is the worst thing you're afraid this person's gonna push back on a worst no? And then we practice what we'd say then. And you know, that's a step that's like we ease into it depending on how hard no no is for you. But for some people, no is a complete sentence, and that's really where the power's at, which is awesome if you can get there, but it takes time, it takes practice. And as a woman, that's another thing, part of that good girl conditioning or this like patriarchal society that we live in, is we're ingrained that no sh is hard for women. And I'm not saying it's not hard for men, but it is hard for women to say no intentionally.

  SPEAKER_01: 19:57

  And I think it's also punished sometimes in the workplace. I've seen with clients that I have where they like attempt to set a boundary or they attempt to say no to something because they're like burnt out or overwhelmed or whatever, and they're trying to protect their peace, and then they get feedback like, well, that's disappointing.

  SPEAKER_00: 20:15

  Mm-hmm. Yeah, people put it back on. Well, and that's another thing that I love to talk about family dynamics too, which makes boundaries especially difficult. But it can also happen in work dynamics is if you've worked a place long enough or if you've been in an environment long enough, we've all got these roles we're already playing. And this is family dynamics like 101. And I know you know this. Like, you know, the family, and everyone knows it if you think about it. You know that family that you're in when you're in high school, you know, that the dynamics of how everyone works. And when you go back home, somehow we shove each other back into those roles, having these same like tetty little setup. I mean, some of us grow out of it, but you know, we know those roles. I think the same things can happen in work environments too. People have learned to rely on you being that person. And so that for some people who take advantage of that no, they're gonna push back. And that's another reason people don't want to say no, because I'm scared to say no. And then the people who I'm scared of the most are gonna push back on this. Yeah, they probably are in the beginning. So that's gonna be hard.

  SPEAKER_01: 21:09

  And then when they push back on it, there's potentially like a threat going back to that like good girl identity of oh, because I disappointed them, I'm no longer like a good girl or like it pushed back that now like threatens my like sense of safety or position or identity and all these things, unfortunately.

  SPEAKER_00: 21:30

  Yeah, and that is such a huge inequality in the workforce because if you think about that, is just not an issue for men in a lot of settings. That isn't what we expect men to do. We expect men to say, hold a boundary, expect men to speak up. But when a woman does it, it's and I'm not saying everywhere, I don't want to like sound like this. But the truth is it's a subtle reality. And I mean, I work with doctors and I work with some amazing ones, but there's still subtle power shifts and ways that we're ingrained to take things. And when a woman says no, it gets more pushback, or sometimes like you're looked at as being difficult, or you know, you know, the people who stand up that are females in your work environment are the crazy difficult ones, which I'm okay being now at this age. You know, I'm a nurse, I've been a long time, and a lot of us call us crazy. I don't care. But, you know, that was beaten into me. And that's understandably so hard. Nobody wants to be seized as that thing we're meant, like we're also acting people pleasing, good girl conditioning. All of this is so ingrained, it's so difficult to overcome because it's hardwired into us from little girls, even if not by your parents, but by the culture you grew up and the movies you see, the things you're exposed to, the classrooms you've been in, how you see other adults. You know, it's not just your racing, it's the whole environment.

  SPEAKER_01: 22:39

  So yeah. I just thought of like a silly example of something that happened with my daughter recently. And mind you, my daughter's only 22 months. We got this note home about how she like almost bit someone. And I was cool to myself, would they send a note home to other, I don't know, a boy child for almost biting somebody? Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't, but like it did cross my mind of like, what are we trying to do here? It's how telling on her for something that she almost did. I don't know, make it make sense, right?

  SPEAKER_00: 23:10

  I know she's what not even two.

  SPEAKER_01: 23:13

  Yeah, she's not even two, and we're we're biting her up basically, for almost biting someone. I was like, that's not really necessary. I don't really need to know that, like, right, but okay, thank you. What am I gonna do with this information? It was like an overcommunication around something kind of like, yeah, all kids bite.

  SPEAKER_00: 23:32

  Right. So yeah, they can't talk, so they have to meet their needs somehow. So if they get there and they'll bite.

  SPEAKER_01: 23:38

  Yeah. So I don't know. I guess as a parent, I'll be curious to see, especially with this lens that I have of like, how are these things like showing up from the system like you mentioned? Because I think it's harder to see it in ourselves, right?

  SPEAKER_00: 23:53

  Oh my God, yes.

  SPEAKER_01: 23:54

  You might be able to even see it better like in a friend than we can see it for ourselves of like, oh, my boss said this. And you might, as a friend, be like, Well, you should have said this. And they're like, Oh, I didn't even think of that. Going back to this whole value of community, really getting to share your stories with other people so they can like maybe be a good mirror for you. Cause sometimes when you're in your own stuff, you don't see all of the ways in which you could stand up for yourself or ways you could shift the story or shift the the way that you respond in a situation.

  SPEAKER_00: 24:25

  Oh, a hundred percent. And that makes me think of so working bedside, you know, there's a lot of times where you have to advocate for a patient's safety. And I work in teaching hospitals. So there's there's times where I know more than the person who's in charge telling me what to do. And so there's times where I've really had to stand my ground and ego gets involved and there's pushback, and you know, I've got to be stern at times, you know. And I find myself in all this, I feel like a bitch. I was you know what it'd be to have like, so I'll go to my coworkers. I don't have, I didn't come from a medical family. So part of my nursing journey is realizing I have to be able to talk to other nurses who get my stress because when I bring it home, nobody gets it. So part of that is I'm like, people in the room, oh my God, I said that I sounded like such a bitch, you know, like I'm feeling guilty of even for standing up for myself or standing up for my patient for doing my job because I had to be very direct with this person and tell them no, and he's in an authority position. But like nine times out of 10, the other nurses in the room would be like, it didn't sound bitchy at all. You're just you're just straightforward. You know what I mean? And so over time, after like getting that feedback, it's like I wasn't being a bitch, it's my own guilt for having to stand up for myself. It's like flooding my body right now. I feel guilty because it was a hard thing to do. And the reality is it's not, it didn't sound that way. It sounded that way because I felt like it was mean to say it, but it wasn't mean. So it was just an adjustment over time. But I feel like that's the big piece of like my community there. I can bounce that off of them and they can be like, no, you're in the good zone. You're doing a good job. Keep it up. You know.

  SPEAKER_01: 25:45

  As someone who's not a nurse, I am kind of curious about like what your perception of nursing is in the hierarchy of things, only because almost any person that I've ever talked to who has gone into the hospital are like the nurses are like the people who run the hospital. The nurses are like the people who actually like listen and care and actually like support you. And like the rest of the people are all just like ancillary to the nurses. And then when I had my baby, I also thought that was true because I have never really been hospitalized for any other reason. So I didn't really get this like, I guess, firsthand experience of what nurses are like until then. But yeah, not to like sing your praises here, but I I am kind of curious of like what is a nurse's perspective on the way that hospitals work, because I do think you have to be that person for your patients, not just because maybe there's now this like reputation to do that, because I think that is a little bit of the reputation potentially. So yeah, I don't know. I'll stop talking about it.

  SPEAKER_00: 26:48

  I think that's a great question. I think that's a great question. I am uh I will back nurses till the day I die because it is not a job where you get paid real great. I mean, I know you can work the system nowadays, but generally people don't go into nursing because they don't care. Most people who go into nursing is because they had a family member, they themselves have had an illness. Or for myself, I don't I wanted to somehow help people from suffering because it's something I experienced for a long time and it makes me feel good. But I call nurses the heartbeat of healthcare. And I think you could really eliminate a lot of the positions. You could never eliminate the nurse. And I don't want to say that they over there's a hierarchy where they in any way trump anyone else because doctors are essential. And I've met some of the most amazing doctors over the years who really care. But nurses are the ones who are there with patients all day. We know what's going on. You know what I mean? And it's literally our job to we are the last line of defense. So everything rolls down from pharmacy, from you know, if you've got respiratory doctors, whatever. You're the last line before it reaches the patient. And so I think nurses, we get a lot of love, which is great. It's like commonly the most trusted profession, which we've earned a hundred percent. But it also we get a lot of slack for like, I've heard people say, like, oh, you know, if you knew a bully in high school, she's probably a nurse, or nurses are mean girls, or you know what I mean? And I see that too. Like, you know, we're fierce, like they're, but because we we have so much guilt and ownership. I mean, you spend all day thinking about the well-being for me, a critical care of one or two persons' lives on a minute to minute basis. I'm wondering how everyone on their systems is doing. And as you trickle down, you just gain more patience and less involvement in like the the crit the specifics, but bigger picture things that need to go on in a day. And so it doesn't get any less stressful or caring as you move out of the ICU. It's just the workload changes, which I would argue that med surge is harder than I see you on some levels when it comes to like time management. But I I think, yeah, I'm a huge nurse advocate. It's a hard job in healthcare. I describe it as like an abusive boyfriend. It's like we a lot of us come into it a little broken anyway. I really feel that way. I'm not saying all nurses, there's some healthy ones out there. I feel like I'm a healthy one now. But you know, I came in trying to prove to myself I was good enough, you know, I like taking care. I could get paid more if I manage to Costco, honestly. So, and that's a lot less stressful job. But I love what I do. It's been like the honor of my life to do some of the things. I've ever been to cry because I get so emotional. But I've had some of the best experiences in my life nursing. And um, when things happen with people I love or family members, crisis or great things, like I have been one of the first calls. I have been able to be there in horrific situations and hear people's pain because I have the ability to do that and departmentalize, like other people don't do, or when someone's squeamish, you know, in your mom's bedroom, I I've been able to go and help my friends take care of their parents. And I'm so honored by that. But I can tell you that the weight of that, the weight of health care, the weight of that stress for years, it took something from me. And it takes something from a lot of nurses. And it's a really hard balance to learn to take care of yourself and exist in a system that's constantly taking from you. So a lot of them are, you know, struggling. You know, but uh they they care so much, you know what I mean? I think you just from your experience, I know you met at least one that really cared, and you know what that's like. You know, uh if it I would give anything for my patients, honestly, you know, you I sit down, I see them as people I've been on both sides of the bed and they're in a vulnerable place. And a nurse is a special person who sees that vulnerability and honors it. Not all of them are there, but I'd say that vast majority are and if if you have one who's being shitty, they're probably having a bad day and going through personal shit and still have to come to work.

  SPEAKER_01: 30:37

  So yeah, yeah.

  SPEAKER_00: 30:38

  And that's why I went into leadership, honestly, is because I want to support them and I learned through my own burnout that the kind of leadership you have, the kind of acknowledgement for this hard work we do, really in the long run, is a whole is a lot of big pieces of what people need. So I'm took a step back from bedside. Now I'm trying to just like love on all of our baby nurses so they know you're doing a good job. It's okay. It's a hard job.

  SPEAKER_01: 31:03

  Yeah.

  SPEAKER_00: 31:04

  Cause when people are in crisis, they need someone to blame. You know what I mean? Like, so sometimes we have a really beautiful experience with families, and sometimes families cannot wrap their head around what is going on. And the only control they have to do, to do is to take it out on the nurse. And that's a very common thing. And we get it, we try to roll with it. It's a hard job.

  SPEAKER_01: 31:21

  Yeah. Yeah. I oftentimes as a therapist hear people say to me, like, oh, I could like never do what you do. And hearing you say all of that, I would almost say like that to you. Like, I don't know if I could ever do all what you do every day in and day out, or what nurses do day in and day out. It's a hard job to carry all. of that like raw pain and raw emotion that people experience.

  unknown: 31:48

  Yeah.

  SPEAKER_00: 31:48

  Well, and I think therapy is the same way though. You hear people's crisis, you sit with people's trauma, and then you have to go to your own therapist who's specialized in therapists. Where you can find a way to safely like say it without therapizing yourself. Because I before I was a nurse, I worked in mental health for 10 years. I worked in adolescent therapy, like I was not a therapist. I backpacked with a troubled team. So I got a lot of exposure to mental health before I became a nurse. And now I'm a neuro. I specialize in neuro. So anything with the brain I'm obsessed with. And I'm not by any way an expert on mental health, but I do it's so my interest. And so yeah, I like a therapy is another there's a lot of jobs like that, honestly. You know what I mean? Doctors too we we give them a lot of flack because honestly like my biggest complaint about healthcare sometimes is the way doctors speak to us. But that is no way saying they shouldn't be there. I don't respect them or I don't want them. I just think they need more support in their journey because they give up their 20s where people learn to be social and they go to school and they learn to save lives. And depending on what they're doing, that environment can be super stressful and they're sacrificing. And then they get out there, they roll into these nurses who we're really good people. Don't argue with us. Like we can, you know what I mean? Like we're really good at people. So you know I'm not trying in any way to knock doctors. I wish they had more support for how to speak to people, how to listen because I think that's what's lacking from them is a lot of them just don't spend the time to listen to people. And if you did most people just need to get it out. You know what I mean? Yeah it's a simple thing of hearing people out but that's a whole nother a whole nother like soapbox I could stand on.

  SPEAKER_01: 33:21

  Yeah I had a thought and then it like left me but it was about just like I think people in healthcare in general and you even said it about doctors we go in this field to like not make money or be rich or anything but like to truly care about people because that's like at the core of what I think a lot of people who get into healthcare are doing it for because it is a broke so much of a broken system. Like why else would we get into like really wanted to try to change it from the inside out. Yeah. But yeah I think that can lead to a lot of burnout amongst a lot of people I know from in my own journey I was like 2020 like I got that was seven years into my journey as a therapist and I was like oh my gosh like I don't know if I can talk to another person. I I think I need to just like hide in the hole. I'm gonna go work at Starbucks and like be a barista and just chill.

  SPEAKER_00: 34:21

  Check out of this shit for a minute. Yes.

  SPEAKER_01: 34:23

  But then like you know really looking at myself and like who I am I just didn't feel like I could actually be okay with that. Like I am doing this for a reason going back to that why. So yeah I think like keeping that why and having good boundaries and coping skills and all of the things really protected me from being like completely burned out.

  SPEAKER_00: 34:45

  Yeah. So what is your community like? Because you know I know you know about the importance of community because mental health is your thing but so what do you do for community?

  SPEAKER_01: 34:52

  Yeah so I really love talking to other people who are doing similar things that I am doing like whether it's through this podcast or a part of a lot of different like group practice owner groups because it can be very isolating there. And I imagine you know this now especially being in leadership even though you're still a therapist or even though you're still a nurse now there's this other level that you have with people that you're working with because like I own my own business and and I technically employ all of these therapists. So there's this different power dynamic that exists which is interesting as therapists. And I imagine this might be similar to the training that you get as a nurse but we're like we're really trained to like get rid of all power dynamics. Like no power dynamics are spent meant to exist in the therapeutic relationship in a lot of ways I feel like that was trained out of me of years and years of being a therapist. So like trying to now sit in this role of being quote unquote in power of my employees but don't really want to be in power of my employees all that to say being a part of other people or kind of like in that same role and in that same position helps decrease like the isolation and like the confusion of how to show up in this role. And then yeah I think there's just like this camaraderie that we all have with like being therapists and like knowing what it's like day in and day out. Cause like you said I don't have any other therapists in my family. No one else really knows what it's like to sit down every day and give therapy to somebody in my personal life. So like almost has to be other therapists that are in my community and other people who are like group practice owners in my community.

  SPEAKER_00: 36:40

  Yeah. Yeah I find the same thing since I stepped into like when I opened my own business and started my own company it just felt like a lot of people put their fears on you in your circle because they care about you, not because anything bad. So finding women who are in that same space who get it you know and that is right there that's the key to community if you like if you're struggling with anything. The key is finding people who get your struggle who've been through something similar and being able to just talk in a space where it's safe. They're not going to judge you just say what you mean like you know what I mean feel your feels with them with a person you trust it with who gets it who's been there who's felt similarly and that has so much power so much power it's so freeing. Anytime we you know this obviously but feeling isolated and alone is it's such a mountain to get over when things get hard. And it is the minute you feel connected it's like an you get a piece of energy you get a little bit of freed you know what I mean isolation is heavy. And so if you can break that in some way it really is like a catalyst to move forward. It helps you build resiliency it helps you feel heard it actually improves your physical and your emotional health like there's like proven statistics on that stuff as well but it's so vital and it's not new you know we I can get on this like patriarchy bandwagon forever. But since the beginning of humans women have like gotten together in community I know men have too but differently women have come together for many different reasons. And I read I think it was Sapiens I'm not sure which one I used to read a lot of like books about like culture and things like that. I want to say like sociology if I think that's wrong. I used to read a lot of books about that because it's just so so and fascinating to me. And they give women storytelling and gossiping and gabbing and like hunter gatherer communities so much credit for the advancement of the human race because that's where stories came from. That's where stories were passed along that's where knowledge was kept you know and we're missing that piece nowadays. And I think like you your podcast is specific to mothers think how much knowledge is missing from that process. When you used to be surrounded by all the women in your family you know they say it takes a village it does and we don't a lot I shouldn't say we don't have that because some people do but I think it's less and less that people have that village that community to say this is normal or that's not normal or you know I'm here for you I'll hear you that is hard you know like whatever it is but we're a whole it's a very isolating culture we live in nowadays especially for women.

  SPEAKER_01: 39:06

  And I wanted to say too another great thing that we haven't really highlighted yet about community is also like sharing wins with other people that also get how big of a deal a win is you know another mom telling you that they were able to like get their kid to I don't know be potty trained that is fucking amazing. Like what are you talking about? But if you like tell someone who's never had a kid or maybe so far removed from ever maybe it's been 20 years since they potty trained someone they might not think that's like a big deal. But like being in it with someone and being able to celebrate their successes I think is also like a huge piece of why it's so important to be in community and be in a village because you can have other people who celebrate you who truly know how big of a deal it is that you are celebrating that thing.

  SPEAKER_00: 39:57

  Yes. Yes and along with that when you see others win subconsciously it also shows you I can too it's possible because they struggled like I did and they and they had this win. And so it even though it's not on the very conscious subconsciously you're showing yourself this is possible. You know so it builds that resiliency that confidence to move forward when you're able to like hear and share like that.

  SPEAKER_01: 40:19

  Mm-hmm. Yeah yeah I think it's going back to what you're saying like women in general are just meant to be I think and historically like around other people just like lifting each other up I do too I do too you know like I think you know I'm a gabber I'm a verbal processor and I think that's somewhat evolved to be that way.

  SPEAKER_00: 40:38

  You know what I mean? I have been very lucky in that I have had very close female friends for over 20 years. I don't have a lot I have two you know what I mean it only takes one or two honestly you don't need like I know a lot of people like oh big friend groups but I think as you get older it's not about the size of your community is it's like the value of that community. You only need one person who understands you. Well I shouldn't say that you only need one person who understands what you're going through. You know what I mean like what I share my work stuff with is not the people I share my relationship struggles with. You know what I mean? So I have people in my life that understand different things. It's not like this huge this huge community of all my friends that I'm always keeping in contact with and texting everyone all day because people do that, but that's not me. I'm not I I am like well extrovert and introvert whatever that weird thing of both is that I'm not keeping a hundred relationships going. I'm not talking to these people daily you know I have a couple people I do that with but for the most part it's like when I'm in crisis I'm going to these people I'm reaching out to them to talk to them to get their advice to see if they've gone through it and they're coming back because they know the value they're in that same spot.

  SPEAKER_01: 41:44

  So well yeah I so I guess I what I'm hearing you say is having relationships is a pretty good indicator of being able to prevent burning out doing it around like being with other people helps burn out.

  SPEAKER_00: 41:58

  It's a vital piece of it it's a vital vital piece of it I mean there's like a lot of moving parts and like I said it's very specific to each person but I think you know and some people have the community already you know what I mean and they're burnt out and they're like but if you're burnt out and you don't have that piece that might be where you start you know what I mean other people we have strong you may have a strong community I did and I burnt out you know what I mean I didn't have the right people though so I had to learn where to like maybe I can't say the people I expressed my nurse stuff with are my best friends who I'd share all my deepest darkest secrets. But I do know that when something happens at work that is so awful like I can go cry to them and they will understand it like no one else. You know I've had some old lady nurses just like hold my face and hold me and be like you're okay and you know those moments mean so much to me. I'll probably never like see the inside of her home but I love her dearly you know what I mean? So it's important to have those people in your life.

  SPEAKER_01: 42:47

  Yeah.

  SPEAKER_00: 42:48

  No I think what you just said is important too like it's not just about having people around you it's like the right person at the right time that you can trust you know what I mean because some people you know I found people think they have community and then we start talking and it's like well this person kind of throws things back in my face or you know encourages this or won't you know keeps bringing me back to this thing that frustrates me. It's like that's not a good friend then you know not saying you have to get rid of that friend but that's all the one you're gonna go to for all of this. You're gonna go to the one that loves you no matter what who doesn't judge you who hears you you know and you know who that is the safe people you're gonna go to the safe people first.

  SPEAKER_01: 43:22

  Yeah.

  SPEAKER_00: 43:23

  Well where can people find you if they want to connect with you further all about that. So um my podcast is called Empowered Ease and it's found anywhere podcasts are found you can find me. I also have a YouTube channel it's uh Jen and the moonflower collective my website is the moonflower coaching collective dot com which I will send you all the links but really if you just find my podcast Empowered Ease anywhere the show notes have you links to everything else. I'm on like Instagram is Jen the Moonflower Coach, Facebook, TikTok, Substack, all that stuff and I just mainly share a lot of the podcast cast episodes I have amazing guests on. So if you're looking for to find your community or to find some support we have conversations like this about real things that are stressing us out real like deep issues and get to know what inspired women to to start this path of helping others and yeah check it out please yeah thank you so much for being on and yeah everyone go check all the things she shared it'll be in the shows it'll be on my Instagram and all the places as well so thank you again.

  SPEAKER_01: 44:28

  Yeah thank you so much for having me thank you for tuning in to redefining us once again and share with other people so other people can continue to listen to redefining us and we can get into more listeners ears if you follow us or subscribe or leave a comment or review that would be greatly helpful for other people to find us and also just for me to get some feedback. What do you guys want to hear me say? What do you women care about hearing? I'm totally open to bringing on guests and talking about topics that are unique and inspiring to everyone so please let me know. And this year hopefully we're full of a lot of community building a lot of public speaking a lot of resource sharing so I really encourage you to follow us on social media at Walminded counseling on Instagram as our handle as well as going directly to our website longmindedcounseling.com backslash redefining type us so you can be in the know with all the things that are happening in the Redefining Us community. Once again thank you so much for listening and keep being awesome.