Episode 37: Doing Business Like A Mother with Jen Morris
What if business didn’t have to be built in spite of motherhood, but alongside it?
Stephanie sits down with Jen Morris, founder of Renegade Motherhood, to talk about what it really looks like to create work that fits real life. Together, they unpack why traditional business spaces often exclude mothers by default and how redefining success can open the door to more sustainable, meaningful growth.
Jen shares how doing business like a mother is less about scaling faster and more about honoring capacity, seasons, and values. The conversation touches on money, comparison, flexibility, and the role of connection in building something that lasts.
This episode offers a different lens on success, one that makes room for caregiving, humanity, and change.
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This is Redefining Us, and I'm your host, Stephanie Konter O'Hara, licensed professional counselor. And I'm so glad that you joined us today so we can dive into what it means to be a woman in today's society. Figuring out how we balance everything, how we grow, how we be more authentically us, and figuring out who we are through the transitions of life, whether that be motherhood, success, relationships, and all things that happen in women's lives because it's definitely not a linear journey. And I think by talking about it and normalizing it and validating, we can all arise together and be the women that we were meant to be. So keep tuning in, and I am so excited about joining the conversation and being in your ears each week. Let's get into it. Welcome back to Redefining Us. On today's podcast, we have Jen Morris, who is a visibility strategist, community builder, speaker, and mom of two who helps ambitious moms lead with her authentic visibility, not polished and not perfection. She is the owner and founder of Renegade Motherhood, and she really tries to help people do business like a mother. And she also has a podcast that's conveniently named Business Like a Mother. So I really hope you enjoy our very honest and deep dive conversation today. I think it's one for the books. Well, thank you for joining us, Jen, on Redefining Us. We're just gonna dive right in. Why don't you share with us a little bit about who you are and why you've begun renegade motherhood?
Yeah, so I mean I'm a mama two. I have a at present moment eight-year-old, and my youngest will be five on Sunday. So a couple more days before you're old in the house. Yeah. A little bittersweet. And I've worn a lot of hats over the years. Uh my background is rooted in the performing arts, acting, musical theater. Did a lot of that in my high school years, my 20s, and that led to starting a business, I think. And looking back, it all makes sense. I think at the time it was just sort of responding to, you know, my life. Um, so I've also been a business owner. I've had a couple different businesses and been an entrepreneur, which I think all actors are entrepreneurs in many ways. I think if they taught that more, uh more actors would probably, at least with my generation. I I think maybe they are more now. But uh yeah, it kind of naturally led to starting businesses. And I mean, networking was always a big part of my entrepreneurial journey. I was actually, I started my first business when I was about 26, maybe 27. I was living in New York City and I was doing a show, an off-off Broadway show with a woman named Ailish. And I was telling her about my business, and she was one of the first people that was like, Oh, cool, I get, I get what you're doing. So at the time it was still kind of the side hustle thing wasn't really a thing. Um, this was 20 years ago. I'm dating myself, but about 20, almost 20 years ago, and her day job was working for a business owner. And so she was going to this networking group. And so she was like, You should come to this networking group. And I was like, Oh, sure. And I'm like, Well, what time is it? And she's like, Well, it's every Wednesday at seven, and I'm thinking 7 p.m. And I'm like, oh, cool. So like seven to like what, like, you know, 8:30. Is it dinner or whatever? And she's like, no, no, no, in the morning. And I was like, Oh now, as a mom now, 7 a.m. is like late, you know. But at the time as an actor, I was like, oh, this is really, really early. But I went and uh it was a mostly male, a lot of guys in suits, but everyone was lovely, and it really was like kind of um a crash course in how to build business relationships, the good, the bad, and the ugly, and really kind of helped me take my business more seriously by being in a room with people who were running large businesses in Manhattan. And so networking was always a piece of it. And then just over time, I joined other groups, I started other groups. I had my second in Labor Day 2020, and about a year-ish, maybe I don't even know exactly, maybe 18 months later, I was ready to be around people again after going through COVID and just all of it and doing a lot of stuff digitally because we all had to. That's not what I love. That's that's not my does not bring me joy. It's essential, and I'm grateful for it because it does allow us to reach more people, but I would much rather be in a room with people or across the table with somebody than a Zoom call. So I was like, maybe it's time to resurrect the networking group I was running in Denver prior to COVID. It was for women in business. But there was a part of me that was like, I really I want to be having these conversations with moms. I want to get with moms because they understand, you know, just the chaos that is motherhood, or at least was for me, but be in a place where, like, yeah, we can talk about kids if we want. But I found that so many of the groups for moms were so focused on kids and child rearing and all of that. And I was like, I want to get a group of moms together, we can be like marketing and potty training, maybe in the same conversation. And so that's where Renegade Motherhood started. It wasn't called that at the time, it was really a very casual thing for the first year and a half, two years almost. And then over time, something shifted, and I really finally kind of got my head out of my butt and was like, okay, this is what I want to be doing. And now we've we've got live events happening in a couple different locations throughout Colorado and Arizona. We've got a digital community, we do coaching and networking and connection, and it's all rooted in just authenticity and and I always say doing business like a mother. So it's been it's been a journey.
Yeah, I'm curious the doing business like a mother, how did that come about? That tagline because I feel like it's so true. Like the energy behind it, you do business differently, I think, as a mother. So yeah, I would like to hear about that for you.
I wish I had some powerful story. I honestly don't know. I think it just came like from my mind at some point. Um, I will say it was not AI, because I came up with a lot for Chat GPT, he was a thing. It was a tool that I do use in some ways, but really the root and the creative core of of the business was was was me, um, which I'm which I'm proud of. So I don't know. I feel like that tag link came apart when I was starting to make some more like pop-up signs, and I was just kind of like, what is it that I what is what is it that we're doing differently? How is this different than other networking groups or other mom groups? And I think we we do do business differently, and in some ways out of necessity, because we are also raising kids and often dealing with, you know, postpartum recovery, birth trauma sometimes, uh perimenopause, menopause. I mean, all the things that just come under this umbrella, um, you know, kids getting older, hormones, empty nests. I mean, I have people in my community who are on all ends of the motherhood, all all I always say all stages and ages, because it doesn't, it doesn't how you came to be a mother, you know, if whether you're an empty nester, it doesn't matter. It's still the thing that ties us together. And I think we're also just we're because of it that we find ourselves in these seasons. And sometimes we're in a season of, oh, this is really hard because I'm still sleep deprived and I have to get up anyway, and I've got to do the thing and grow the business because I want the flexibility, I say, because I think that's a thing too. It's like I'm starting a business to have flexibility, and I was like, ooh, like what does that really look like for you? You know, and I I fed into that for a long time too. Or the season could be, you know, I've got kids in middle school and high school, and they're in all these different activities, and I'm still and they're not driving yet. So I have to be that, or I'm adjusting to life with kids out of the house, and that's a huge identity shift as well. And so how we run our business is going to be impacted by that. And I have yet to find a mom who is also, you know, in whether whether it's a business owner or just someone who is career driven and maybe, maybe is an employee but still building a career who is able to compartmentalize, you know, all of it. Because if you're working and your kid is sick or your kid is in crisis, or you have morning sickness, or whatever that is, it directly plays a part and it impacts how you do business. And so while I take a little more humorous approach to like do business like a mother, of like, I think motherhood can be our superpower, there are also the real downsides of it too. And part of what I am very open about, you know, you've been to some of my events and stuff, is that it can be really hard sometimes too, like really hard to try to navigate all of it. And if we can create spaces that are rooted in that authentic conversation and not just this kind of work harder, sleep less, girl boss, rah-rah, BS, that is so prevalent in the business development and networking culture. I think we actually are gonna do better as opposed to, you know, I don't know that we always need more motivation. I think sometimes we just need to be seen and heard and understood. And when we can kind of get that and create spaces where that's allowed and normalized, then we actually can keep moving forward as opposed to just trying to like dump some motivation on it, you know, like lipstick on a pig kind of thing. Yeah.
Yeah.
I think something that really drew me to the groups as someone who's been to them was this idea that you don't have to ignore the fact that you're a mother in these events. I feel like sometimes, especially in early days of my experience, I felt like I needed to, and I'm still a very new mother, just for context. And I people that listen to this know that. But I felt like there were people who are like, oh, you just have to kind of ignore the fact that your mom just show up the way that you did before you were a mom. Because my business has been around prior to Ella. And so yeah, I was coming back into it thinking, oh, I need to run this business the way that I did before. And that became very evident very quickly to me that that was not going to be possible. Yeah. And so, and I've been to networking groups that are even co-ed, and there's still this energy of, oh, you need to show up as if you don't have a life outside of what your business is doing.
Right. Yeah. And I tell people, you know, who come to mind that I say there's really not a lot of rules, but the one rule I do have is it's a sorry free zone, meaning that we are so trained to apologize for life happening, for, you know, dumping coffee down our shirts for being late because shit happened, you know. And there are also times that we do need to apologize and own something, right? But so often, and I do this too, you know, I'm a few minutes late. Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. And we have to explain it all. And again, when it's a group of moms, it's like we all get it. We've all been there. And we don't want to be ridiculous about it, like, you know, half hour late and we're leaving somebody there and we're not messaging or whatever, right? But I tell people, like, just show up. If you show up and you're 45 minutes late, cool. Celebrate the fact that you got here anyway. Um, and I agree, so many other groups and incubators and masterminds and business coaching, you know, I've been part of a lot of them, and they do sort of say, like, they don't say it, but it feels often like kind of a pressure cooker and uh not a lot of room for, you know, the unknown and motherhood is every day. It's a it's an unknown. There is no, you know, we just we don't know what's gonna come our way.
So and I think when you're in these rooms, again, at least for myself, I've found that there's a different definition of success. I've been in, again, other rooms where I feel like the success is like how much revenue are you bringing in? How many patients or clients are you serving and helping? And then very like numbers-based, but I feel like in these rooms I'm not getting the sense that there's a hierarchy of like, oh, I'm doing more business and this person, therefore, I'm better at business.
Yeah, I love that you said that because I I sometimes do go back and forth, like, should there be more of that kind of like not push, but energy toward, you know, the money? Because I do and I do talk a lot about money, right? About the economy of motherhood and how we can all support our own economy, so to speak, by supporting moms in business and that kind of thing, right? But I think that, yeah, when people get in those kinds of environments where it's all just about the number of referrals and then it doesn't take into account anything, like doesn't take into account industry, it doesn't take into account the economy, because some some businesses are gonna do a lot better in certain economies and some businesses are gonna struggle. And it doesn't take into account like my kid had strep throat four times in April. True story, you know, and I had it too, and like, and then we know, or we were moving or whatever that is, right? So there is there is a balance to that, but yeah, it doesn't just because somebody may be saying they're making more money doesn't mean that they're better than anybody. And I did not come up with this, but I was part of a a program a couple of years ago, and and the guy who who ran it said something that I'm gonna paraphrase, but it was it was just an interesting way of looking at it. Was like, we all often say that we want these like seven-figure businesses or corporations, but that's not what everybody really wants. You know, it isn't necessarily what everybody wants. Some people really want to do the solopreneur route where it's just them where they don't have to deal with hiring people. Maybe they have some a few things they outsource, right? But that they're able to charge a certain rate and they're still able to see a certain amount of clients and they're able to cover what they need and plus some, right? And then some people want more of like the small business where maybe they have a few employees, and by having those employees, they're able to grow. And then some people want the enterprise, you know, but it's a deeply personal decision because when you're running the enterprise, you probably, yes, you might be making more money, but you have a lot more people that you're responsible to. And you might at some point have some sense of freedom and flexibility, but there's still a lot of responsibility too. And so it it kind of depends on. I think so many people start with how much they want to make. And I always say, like, why don't you start with what do you want your life to look like? And I have to hear that for myself too, because I I vacillate a lot between wanting to build the whole thing and do all the stuff, but then realizing, like, I said this at last at the last meeting that I spoke at was, you know, my vision is bigger than my bandwidth. And sometimes we get to those places where it's like, okay, I see where this is going, I see where I want this to be, and I see what's possible, but I'm tired, or I've got all these other things too that are also priorities. And as moms, we're always juggling that. And I don't want to be working all the time. And then all of a sudden I look back and my kids are in college, and I was like, oh my gosh, because I already feel like that many days, just it goes so fast. But I also really love what I'm doing and I really love to work and I like to grow things, and so it's a constant kind of re-evaluation. And I don't think enough people take that time to re-evaluate. They set goals, they go for it, they build, build, build, and then they either build to the point of burnout or they're like, this isn't working, and they burn it all down because we're not taking those moments to reflect and be like, is this working? Am I happy? And is this giving me the lifestyle that I wanted when I started a business? So I think if anyone's listening who's in that, those could be some maybe questions to check in with yourself and not just make it about dollars and cents, like you said, which is what so much of it is. And it's important, it's very important. That's the part I'm the worst at, you know, I'm owning that. But there are other pieces too. And so many people are just like, build the seven-figure business, but that's not what a lot of people don't want what that entails, you know, it's not worth it.
So yeah, and there's a lot of different types of business leaders. It sounds like maybe you and I have similar ideas around how maybe we see ourselves, because I see myself as someone who always has new ideas, like more, more, create, create. And then I have to put the brakes on, like, okay, wait a second. Do I actually have the time, energy, and resources for this internally in order to make all this happen? But there's other people in these rooms who maybe, like you going back to what you were saying, like have a different mindset where I just want to do what I need to do to have a successful business, but I also want all this time and energy spent towards being with my kids. And I think having those conversations in the first 20 or 30 minutes that is allotted in your groups allows me to check in with that part of myself that also wants that because I can be someone who wants to chase the next best thing. So having not a room full of people just like myself is so nice because I'm like, oh yeah, there's other parts of me that also need time and energy to be spoken to and have that reflection back.
Yeah, totally. It's so important to I I've I've done some talks too and content just around like what you need in your network. And I think so many times we're just looking for people who can give us clients. But I think one of the most powerful things you can have in your network is a thought partner and a sounding board and somebody that you can process this stuff with. Because when we're doing business by ourselves, even if we have employees, even if we have a team or a business partner, like we need outside people to basically just reflect what it is back at us that we're saying. You know, we usually have the answers already, but we just need someone to kind of be like, okay, I hear that you want this, but what I'm also hearing is this, you know? And so being able to find people like that can be very powerful for your business. Even if it's like they're never gonna refer you someone that pays you, it's gonna play such a huge role. And so to find people like that, you need to be putting yourself in rooms, whether it's a Zoom room or a live room with those kinds of people. Um and I found that there weren't, there just weren't a lot of these spaces. So I was like, well, let's see if we can create it.
So yeah. I really enjoy the collaborative nature too of what you try to get going in the the in-person events, but I imagine there's maybe more collaboration in the the coaching that you do on the online part. Do you mind sharing, I guess, what that looks like for people? Just because I think again, what you're saying, the thought partner leads me to think about people needing to collaborate with each other too and create ideas together.
Yeah. So the the digital community is called Momentum, but it's like M-O-M capital, so momentum. And within that, we do twice monthly coaching like office hours where whoever wants to come on Zoom comes on Zoom and people can submit questions ahead of time and all the thing. And, you know, when they first started, when it was really new, sometimes it would be just me and no one would get on. And then it was like me and one other person, and then it was, and now we get quite a few people on every call. And a lot of people show up and they don't actually have a question. They just are there to listen, provide input and feedback. And it's really powerful, you know, like it's to the point now where I facilitate and I'll offer some insight if I feel like I have it, but there are certain things that are not my zone of genius. And I think so many times coaches and these kind of gurus try to be the authority on everything. And I just I don't think that's possible. And so a lot of clarity has come out of these calls, a lot of just like, yeah, collaborations. I know people have hired people because they've liked something that they've said and they've been like, oh yeah, we should talk more. And that's the whole point of it. The whole point is to create these spaces where people can come. And yeah, sometimes it is like a very tactical question, and sometimes it's like, oh, I just I kind of know I need to do this when I'm having some tension around it. And so it's like, okay, well, maybe there's a way to do it that's not the way you think you have to do it. And but it's really, it's very powerful. And it's really cool, actually, how many people, because at first I thought the only people who will get on are people who have a question, right? And want some time. And I find that it's actually more people get on just to hear what other people are doing, you know, um, create space for people, get to know people's business better and and just be in that environment. And so that's been really one of those surprising, kind of awesome pieces. But I know, and also, you know, I'm kind of a human design nerd, and I know some people are really into the different Enneagrams and all the things. And it is cool when you start to get different types of industries, different, different ages, different life experiences, and then different personality types, you know, the different kinds of the way people will hear the same thing. And I'm sure you as a therapist are an expert on this. Um, it's really cool because sometimes people will leave with like a couple of different sort of things to think about, and it's not just one person sharing their opinion, because ultimately that's often what coaching is can be like, well, this is my opinion, this is what I think you should do. But you as a therapist know it's that's not always it, right? It's really about getting people to make decisions based on what they want and what they are capable of versus what everyone else is telling them to do, which is where I think so much confusion comes from because we live in this social media age where we fall into this comparison game. And that happens at these networking events too, you know, going back to what you said about the dollars and cents and the revenue and everything. It's like you walk in and then feeling like, oh, this is cool. I'm in a cool space, and you walk out feeling like, oh, well, damn, I'm not, I'm not operating on this level. And it can feel some people are motivated by that and some people are very defeated by that.
Yeah, I was contemplating after the last meeting that I went to, this weird feeling that I end up having after some networking things. And I'm kind of curious if other people feel this way. And it's gonna sound odd potentially. But I find myself thinking, like, I don't want to make other people feel insecure because I don't think that what I'm doing is all that impressive. And this is probably my own insecurities too, wrapped up into this. But yeah, I think that's what comes up for me is like, I want to downplay my success. And then in that meeting, someone was like, I said something about that. And they're like, that's silly. Like, never downplay your success just because someone else's business may not be what yours is. That doesn't mean that they feel insecure because you're sharing about your business. They could be really proud of where their business is, and maybe they're actually not comparing because I kind of get weird about like, I don't want people to feel insecure around me because I actually am really proud of them. And so, yeah, I think again, going back to the kind of conversations that are happening in these rooms are like so different than what I would maybe expect from like a chamber of commerce meeting that I've been to, or they're like, you know, some other other networking group. Like, I feel like moms and maybe mothers hopefully, and I'm gonna make a journalization, are just more supportive because they're kind of coming from this place of being a mom, being a caregiver and a helper, so they could be good sounding boards for things like that.
There's so much we can unpack in that. Yeah, I mean, and it's true because we are conditioned to downplay our successes, I think, as women in general. Because if we are, you know, otherwise we are bragging, we're boasting, you know, all the stuff. And I think because we've also all had experiences with people who we do feel charged by because they have what we want, right? When I was studying acting in New York years ago, we talked about like disowned selves and that like oftentimes you and you probably know this too, right? I mean, it all goes back to psychology and everything, but we we often like if there's someone that we don't like, sometimes, not always, sometimes just because we just don't like the person, right? But sometimes just because they have something that's a part of us, but that we kind of disown, right? So it might be that we meet somebody and they have and they're really put together and they have designer clothing and they're the person that their makeup is always perfectly done and their nails are always manicured, and we're just like, well, they must have help, they must have money, family money, and we make up these stories, but it could be because we're like, oh man, like I would really love some nice new clothes and I would love to look and feel like look at least what I think this person feels is like confident, and so so it is interesting, and then I think so. Then we bring this into other situations, right? Of like, well, what are people gonna think about me if I say I've had a great month in my business, or I just hired my 10th therapist, or things are going really well. Um, I'm in a choir, and one of the things that we do on like a monthly basis, we used to it every week, but the choir's grown, so we can't do it as much now. But we do highs and lows, where at the end we we take a half hour at the end of the rehearsal, and everyone shares a high and a low. And I think that can be beautiful because it gives people a space to celebrate and share something good. And sometimes it's like, oh, I just I took a girl's trip, I got away, or I had a date night, or I I sold a painting, you know, like there's a lot of different types of people in the group. And then sometimes, you know, the low is often lately political because it's a for me an ever-present low right now for many of us. And sometimes people skip it. Sometimes people are like, I really just don't try to focus on the positive. So I think you're at a place where I think you could really be such a mentor and inspiration for a lot of therapists who are in the kind of weeds of building a business to be like, hey, listen, I am so proud of what we have now and it's going great, but it took a long time to get here. And so you're in it now. You're like climbing that mountain and everything. And I can tell you that there's so much good to be had during this, and there's also more good to come. And like stick with it. And if you ever need five minutes to just be like, ah, you know, like reach out to me, send me a text. Like, I'm happy it'll be a thought partner, be a mentor, if that's what you have, you know, if you have capacity for that right now, which you may not. But so acknowledging that, yeah, things are awesome right now, but I'm very upfront too, where I'm like, I'm a startup still, so things are great. And I think people often look at this and they're like, oh my gosh, look what you've done. But like, I am still very much in a startup of like reinvesting money, and I'm not really taking much of a paycheck yet and stuff like that. And so on paper, yeah, things are good and growing, but like, and so I think to acknowledge like this is growing faster than I ever imagined and not as fast as I want, and I'm happy, and it's hard because all of that can coexist. Like the good, the celebratory, the confidence, the success can also exist with the scarcity, the challenges, the bad days, the financial stress. Like it all can exist. And if we stop trying to compartmentalize it, you know, like it can be very therapeutic. Yeah, sure.
Yeah. Yeah. I think just acknowledging too, like, maybe it's like the whole story, right? Like, oh yeah, I have a good month, but this other thing also happened earlier last year where I was like, ah, I'm wanting to bang my head against the wall. And I think that's just how going back to the comparisons between business and motherhood, I feel like it's how motherhood is too. Like, oh yeah, I figured how to potty train my kid in three days or something. Like, you know, people say they do. I doubt that happens. And then other people are like, oh my goodness, it took me, you know, six months to potty train. And I think that's just the the way things are with both business and motherhood. That's never gonna be like a linear line or great all the time.
And my first kiddo, it was hard. It took a long time. And then number two was just kind of like sort of did it. I don't even remember it being a thing, really. Like it was a thing, but I don't really remember it being a thing. And so I think that's the case too, is like every client is gonna be a little bit different, every day in your business is gonna be a little bit different. I have multiple locations right now. Every location is very different. And so it's a lesson of like, it's just a constant like looking at ways to improve and also letting go at the same time. And I think that can be the hardest piece. Cause I think with motherhood too, there's a lesson there of like, we want to hang on so tightly and we want to control and we want to this and that, but we have to also let go and we have to release these expectations. If we start putting all these expectations on our kids, we know what happens, right? And it's the same thing with the business. If we're just constantly expectations, goals, goals, expectations, and we're not just also kind of like releasing and being like, this, it's gonna be okay. It's gonna be okay. There is a point in which we have done everything we can do to get people to this event, and now I just have to trust that they're gonna show up and that they're gonna come back the next month and it's gonna continue to grow. And I mean, I could play that game with myself all day every time I open my app and I'm like, okay, where are ticket sales at? And so it's a lesson of like looking, so I'm not ignoring it, and then taking some action and then being like, it's gonna be okay. But like it's not gonna fall apart. Yeah, I'm trusting the process. Yes, yes, absolutely. And some of us are really good in that in motherhood and terrible in business, and some of us are really good about it in business, and then we're really about it in motherhood, and so it's I think they can be really good mirrors to each other if we if we let them be. Um, yeah, but it's also easier said than done too. It's easy to be like, oh yeah, it's all these philosophical TED talks, you know, and then when it when you're in actual like living it, it's like, oh my god, what's happening? So yeah, yeah.
Well, the actual living it part, I think, is going to be challenging either way, but I do think the built-in support that people get with Renegade Motherhood is is really nice. Like I've made some connections and talked to people outside of group, and I think, yeah, like even if we can't spend all the time in the rooms connecting every single week, we can have the opportunity to connect outside. And I think having the ongoing support is just is so nice because when you are an entrepreneur, you can feel very isolating. And when you're a mom, you can also feel really isolated, especially if you go online and everyone's telling you you need to be a perfect mom in a certain way or whatever. You can get out of that and get into real life where people hopefully are being more real about what day-to-day actually looks like.
Yeah, I mean, if you looked around my office right now, like behind me, it looks beautiful, but to the right and left of me, it's still boxes that I'm unpacking because we moved a month ago and trash and papers that need to be shredded. And I think that's the idea of like, you know, the duck, right? And paddling underneath. But if more of us can just be open about that, it's very refreshing. And it's it does happen, you know, there are definitely more influencers and all that stuff. But I think uh yeah, we're allowing ourselves more to be influenced, I think, than we are like connected to each other.
So yeah. Yeah, I did this values work earlier this year as part of some both therapy and exploring myself and came up with both independence and connection as my two highest values, which I think are really interesting. Wow, I like this oh, yeah. But I feel like again, going back to business ownership and motherhood, both of those things I think are almost needed. You need to have this desire to be connected to your business goals, to your community, to your child, to the experience of motherhood. But it's also really important to be independent and trust yourself and you know, lead and find yourself feeling like you can do the work that needs to be done without necessarily feeling hopeless. So yeah.
Remember that that you when you come on my podcast, I would love for you to talk about that. That's really juicy. Well, because it also goes back to the idea of like moms need time for themselves too, right? And it doesn't make us bad people or mad moms. I mean, my choir is a non-negotiable where Tuesdays, even when things are busy and crazy. I mean, sometimes there are times where I'm like, I don't want to go, right? And I make that decision for me or if I'm not feeling well or whatever. But yeah, I mean, for the most part, it's like it's my time, and sometimes my kids are really good about it now. At first, they did not like it. They did not like that mom was going somewhere for two hours, which is normal, you know, which was which was fine. But there would be tears, and then every once in a while, this one of them will still be like, Well, but why do you like, do you like your choir friends more than us? You know? And I'm like, no. And I go, but you know how you have play dates and your time with your friends is really important. I go, choir is mom's play date. And moms need play dates too. It makes me happier and it makes me less of a cranky mom, you know. Like when I don't go out and hang with my friends, I get a little cranky. Just like when you don't get to watch the show you want to watch sometimes, or you don't get to see your friends sometimes, you get a little cranky, but still holding that line of like, you know, I'm I'm going, I'm going to be there. It's important to me. And you're allowed to have your feelings about it. And your feelings are valid. It's still, it's, it's my time and it makes me really happy. And I love it. And uh I think I encourage, and I also have the privilege of having a husband who is able to be home with the kids and support and all the things. And I acknowledge that. I know that not everyone is in that situation, but I think it's really important for caregivers, all caregivers, to have that. And even if it's 30-minute walk around the block or something like that, anyway, that could be a whole other episode. But yeah, for sure.
Well, thank you so much for coming on. If you can share with people how they can find you, it'll also be on the show notes on the website. But yeah, feel free to share.
Yeah. I mean, all things Renegade Motherhood are on the website renegade motherhoodlife.com. So that's a great place to find me. I hang out on social media a little. It's not my favorite place, but I but I am there. And uh I think my yeah, you can the handles will be in the in the show notes, but at it's Jen Morris and that at renegade.motherhood. Yeah, and there's some great resources as well on the website, some free resources that depending on kind of what people are looking for, are available there too.
Well, thank you so much for being on. I imagine people got a lot from what you had to say today, so I appreciate it.
Thanks for having me. I love having you part of the community and I love your show. So thank you for having these, I think, hard conversations. So they're important.
Thank you for tuning in to Redefining Us once again and share with other people so other people can continue to listen to Redefining Us, and we can get into more listeners' ears if you follow us or subscribe or leave a comment or review. That would be greatly helpful for other people to find us, and also just for me to get some feedback. What do you guys want to hear me say? What do you women care about hearing? I'm totally open to bringing on guests and talking about topics that are unique and inspiring to everyone, so please let me know. And this year, hopefully we've pulled a lot of community building, a lot of public speaking, a lot of resource sharing. So I really encourage you to follow us on social media at Wellminded Counseling on Instagram as our handle, as well as going directly to our website, longmindcounseling.com backslash redefining type in us, so you can be in the know with all the things that are happening in the Redefining Us community. Once again, thank you so much for listening and keeping awesome.